Why aren't you playing?

Discussion of Flames of War, Black Powder and other historical games.
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me_in_japan
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Re: Why aren't you playing?

Post by me_in_japan » Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:43 pm

I heard that GW actually don't make any money on their army books. They may even make a loss, Im not sure. Either way, if they started...what, giving the books away for free? then they'd make even more of a loss, and no company likes to do that.
Most gamers don't invest beyond their faction's book and then have compilations of books for other factions on their hard drives.
Didn't they always just buy their faction book? I mean, who here ever collected every single faction book for a game?

You're right when you say that the books can all be found online, but even so, I still want to buy them in paper format. I like it much, much better than a pdf. I really don't mind paying ten or fifteen quid for a book that I'm going to read again and again, and get many hours of fun gaming out of. Heck, a paperback novel costs almost that much these days, and at least army books have pretty pictures (commisioned and paid for) in them, as well as a whole bunch of full-colour painting pages and whatnot.

I've been pretty vocal in my dislike of GWs recent changes (miniature price hikes, switch to failcast, sales embargo) but I can't fault them for their army books. They're well produced and are not insanely expensive (although I notice that the new fantasy army books are 25quid. Theyre hardback, right? Is there a paperback version which is cheaper? I know that PP do both and let the buyer choose.)
internet pdfs really don't create costs of production
They really do. GW may not have the biggest creative team in the world, but they do employ quite a few writers, artists, people who do layout, proofreading, editing etc etc. Publishing any document is time consuming and a difficult job. You cant expect GW to do it for free.
I'm still not convinced GW or any gaming company ever lacks for commitment amongst their staff to play test rules and ideas.
If that were true GW wouldnt need to employ staff, and could be run on a volunteer basis. You'll notice that this isnt happening...
Gaming companies ought to be primarily creating revenues from model sales, accessories to gaming and hobby materials.
you mean like, rulebooks?
far more capital intensive endeavors, such as MMPGs, social networking sites and others, that you can make your revenues without charging for every service you provide. Rules could either be partly or wholly provided without cost in my belief.
chalk and cheese, chief. Chalk and cheese.
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The Other Dave
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Re: Why aren't you playing?

Post by The Other Dave » Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:54 pm

me_in_japan wrote:Didn't they always just buy their faction book? I mean, who here ever collected every single faction book for a game?
<raises hand meekly>
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Re: Why aren't you playing?

Post by Colonel Voss » Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:37 am

You saw my collection of fantasy and 40k books as well as my FoW books. Stateside I still have all my second and third edition 40k and my 4th,5th,6th ed fantasy.
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Re: Why aren't you playing?

Post by me_in_japan » Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:15 am

@ToD & Voss - :roll: nerds! :mrgreen:
current (2019) hobby interests
minis
Nurgle daemons for AoS, Ghosties for Shadespire
Magic cards
tribal zombies, Standard, too much MtGA.
Hobby finances
minis: in the black
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Re: Why aren't you playing?

Post by Admiral-Badruck » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:20 am

I know I am a bit late to this thread but I am torn about playing historical... I guess my biggest hangup is the attention to detail and historical accuracy the facts :geek: .. It is all too tedious :ugeek: I know I would make a mistake and paint something Blue :geek: that should have been Azure :ugeek: or I would write a post that explained my modeling and then people would quote me and point out how I was wrong and how it should have been another way :geek: .... at least with fantasy and with Sci-fi I can paint something the way I like and if I make a mistake within the lore then I am adding a new twist to the lore rather than getting a lecture :ugeek: about how the Zulu did not wear war paint on the left side of their face it was on the right and it was not white it was more of and eggshell color :ugeek: .

@Prime : This is the reason I am not playing. It looks great other wise... let me paint the models how I like and do not get preachy about the historical side of it and I am more than keen to play any of historical era games. I do not even mind learning a bit of history in the process. :D but I just fear the geeks that will harp on me left right and center if I do not paint and model everything as it was "Historically" :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Why aren't you playing?

Post by Primarch » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:29 am

Admiral-Badruck wrote:I know I am a bit late to this thread but I am torn about playing historical... I guess my biggest hangup is the attention to detail and historical accuracy the facts :geek: .. It is all too tedious :ugeek: I know I would make a mistake and paint something Blue :geek: that should have been Azure :ugeek: or I would write a post that explained my modeling and then people would quote me and point out how I was wrong and how it should have been another way :geek: .... at least with fantasy and with Sci-fi I can paint something the way I like and if I make a mistake within the lore then I am adding a new twist to the lore rather than getting a lecture :ugeek: about how the Zulu did not wear war paint on the left side of their face it was on the right and it was not white it was more of and eggshell color :ugeek: .

@Prime : This is the reason I am not playing. It looks great other wise... let me paint the models how I like and do not get preachy about the historical side of it and I am more than keen to play any of historical era games. I do not even mind learning a bit of history in the process. :D but I just fear the geeks that will harp on me left right and center if I do not paint and model everything as it was "Historically" :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
It depends. If you decided to do, I dunno, a pirate themed roman army for example, with all of them wearing tricorn hats, wielding muskets and with eye patches everywhere, I think I would have a hard time keeping quiet. If you paint something blue when it should have been Azure, I wouldnt notice. My knowledge of history is pretty vague and I am looking mainly at wikipedia for most of my info re: units/colours. Even then, a lot of the stuff is conjecture rather than fact.

I think that so long as you make the effort to make things seem historical, the exact details are just a matter of taste. I think it was mentioned elsewhere, but there were LOTS of variations of shades and colours used and equipment changed frequently throughout a lot of wars. 2 batches of uniforms weren't always exactly the same shade and in ancient times, things were even more varied.

In the Napoleonics game I'm planning with Ash, he is fielding Prussians and I am fielding British. At Waterloo they were allies and in previous campaigns they both fought in different theaters (Prussians in what is now Germany and the British in Spain). My men are all in Waterloo gear, or so my box tells me, but we're still going to give it a shot regardless, as a "What If?" scenario.

You'll probably find that there is less freedom for converting stuff in some ways. (Pirate Romans for example), but at the same time, you can do some things which are historically possible. E.g. the Romans fought all around Europe and parts of Africa. You could have a veteran squad modelled with leopard skins over their shoulders. You can do some research online, or you can use your imagination and some common sense (stop chuckling at the back) and create your own stuff.

If you make the effort to at least look like its right no-one will care if its not. Thats my view on it anyway.
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Re: Why aren't you playing?

Post by Colonel Voss » Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:51 am

me_in_japan wrote:@ToD & Voss - :roll: nerds! :mrgreen:
Yep, watch out

http://youtu.be/lEiuEvTH_z4
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Re: Why aren't you playing?

Post by Spevna » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:48 am

Admiral-Badruck wrote:I know I am a bit late to this thread but I am torn about playing historical... I guess my biggest hangup is the attention to detail and historical accuracy the facts :geek: .. It is all too tedious :ugeek: I know I would make a mistake and paint something Blue :geek: that should have been Azure :ugeek: or I would write a post that explained my modeling and then people would quote me and point out how I was wrong and how it should have been another way :geek: .... at least with fantasy and with Sci-fi I can paint something the way I like and if I make a mistake within the lore then I am adding a new twist to the lore rather than getting a lecture :ugeek: about how the Zulu did not wear war paint on the left side of their face it was on the right and it was not white it was more of and eggshell color :ugeek: .

@Prime : This is the reason I am not playing. It looks great other wise... let me paint the models how I like and do not get preachy about the historical side of it and I am more than keen to play any of historical era games. I do not even mind learning a bit of history in the process. :D but I just fear the geeks that will harp on me left right and center if I do not paint and model everything as it was "Historically" :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Which army would you play if you did?
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Re: Why aren't you playing?

Post by Admiral-Badruck » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:51 pm

I rather like Zulu for a (South African colonial era) I would also be interested in Union North ACW era and Samuri would also be fun... I would follow the them but I certainly would just get the finger to anyone who points out stupid little details. I would be tying to get things accurate and when I made a mistake I would not want to hear it in a nerdy pretentious I know more than you tone. I hate it in 40k when that happens and I hate it in FB when that happens as long as there is no nerdy pretentiousness I am in..
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Re: Why aren't you playing?

Post by Primarch » Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:01 am

Admiral-Badruck wrote:I rather like Zulu for a (South African colonial era) I would also be interested in Union North ACW era and Samuri would also be fun... I would follow the them but I certainly would just get the finger to anyone who points out stupid little details. I would be tying to get things accurate and when I made a mistake I would not want to hear it in a nerdy pretentious I know more than you tone. I hate it in 40k when that happens and I hate it in FB when that happens as long as there is no nerdy pretentiousness I am in..
Current Zulu ranges are available from:
Wargames Factory in plastic and Empress in metal. Personally, I am waiting for the Warlord Games plastics.
ACW is covered in both plastic and metal by Perry Miniatures.
Samurai are also available from the Perrys in metal,and Wargames Factory are working on plastics.

I would be interested in Zulus perhaps, but I am sick of painting British uniforms at the moment. :D Too much Red and White.
ACW I know very little about, except that it was fought between the Union and the Confederacaaah? :D The Confederates look reasonably easy to paint.
Samurai seem cool, but I would hold off until the plastics are done. The Perry's minis are nice, but an army isnt cheap.
The best part about the plastics is that they are all available from Maelstrom with the free shipping. For ACW and Zulu you can use the Black Powder Rules, and Hail Caesar should cover Samurai. Both games recommend between 20-24 models, two ranks deep for most units, and 4 units per brigade. A starter set of 2 sets of union infantry and 1 of cavalry from Maelstrom will provide 72 infantry (3 units of 24) and 1 block of 12 cavalry (1 unit of 12). After that, just get a couple of metal officers from the Perry site and you have a starting force costing about 7500 yen.
Prims Painty Points > +924.5
Finished Minis in 2014: 510.....Finished Minis in 2015: 300
Finished Minis in 2016 (as of Nov 30): 369 + 2 Tables of Terrain

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