Independence Day - June 23rd

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Re: Independence Day - June 23rd

Postby Primarch on Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:03 am

This is probably worth a quick skim through:
http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.u ... k-overview
In a nutshell, according to a study conducted by the university of Oxford in 2014, 20% of the UK population was not originally from the UK. (Though some of them were only temporary residents). The largest surges in immigration happened when the EU gained new member states.

On the issue of immigration, it has been increasing year on year and with the EU's policy of letting anyone go anywhere, it is unlikely it would ever decrease significantly. Being an immigrant here in Japan myself, I have nothing against it, but obviously some of the 52% of voters felt that a net population increase of 0.5% per year was too high.

Leave weren't lying about that. Though the consequences of it are certainly an area where they may have told a porky or two.

So, here is a question.
Given that the Leave party had access to all the same info as the Remain party.
Given that the Leave party are well educated men and women with the same backgrounds as their Remain counterparts.
Given that BoJo was in with a good chance to be Tory leader after Cameron.
Why, knowing it would b*gger the economy and set the country back decades, would they want to vote Leave? I really don't see any upside for the campaigners here.
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Re: Independence Day - June 23rd

Postby Spevna on Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:48 am

The Leave campaign lies in regards to immigration were more about how leaving the EU would reduce it, when in fact there is no probable way they'll be able to do that if they want to stay in the single market.

I read that a lot of areas that had high numbers of people voting leave actually have lower number of immigrants funnily enough.

For BoJo, Gove, and Leadsom it was a power play to try and get the PMs job. Cameron only called the referendum to appease the eurosceptics and consolidate his position, assuming he'd win easily. He got completely outplayed by the Leave campaigners.

They don't care if there is a recession. They are all so stkinking rich that it won't impact them. The average man on the street will feel it, but he'll blame the EU, trade unions, and the immigrants that are still around because that's what Murdoch will be telling him in the Sun.

This is a quote from an article in the FT.

"Now Britain seems headed for recession. When I mentioned this in an email to a privately educated Oxford friend, he chastised me: “You seem unduly concerned about short-term financial impacts. This is a victory for democracy.” I see what he means. If you make £200,000 a year, a recession is just an irritation. But if you make £20,000, it’s a personal crisis, and if you now make £15,000, then soon you may be struggling to feed your children."

Here's the full article if anyone cares to read it.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/f4dedd92-43c7 ... 1c97d.html
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Re: Independence Day - June 23rd

Postby Primarch on Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:52 pm

Immigration from the EU could be stopped, but at that point the single market is closed. Bad enough that the UK will no longer have any say in how it is run, no sense in committing financial suicide into the bargain.

It's funny how those area with lower numbers of foreign workers voted to stop those numbers increasing. Although, if you think about it, it isn't. Take the North East for example. We've always had unemployment above the national average, salaries below the national average and not much pull in government to do much about it. Looking over that Oxford study, the North East had an increase in immigration of 122% over the past 20 years, London had about 75%. Sure, London has more, but it's also in a better position to handle it. Immigration makes more economic sense the closer unemployment gets to zero. Creating more competition for jobs just leads to problems. One theory I read online somewhere was that Racism stems largely from competition for resources. Us Vs. Them. That is an easy thing for politicians to tap into, hence the higher votes in areas with higher unemployment.
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Re: Independence Day - June 23rd

Postby Spevna on Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:53 am

The impact of immigration on pay is apparently inconclusive, but I believe that it does often lead to salaries going down.

Rather than blame immigrants for it, people should be blaming business owners. The only reason they hire immigrants is because they are generally more willing to work for less. Nothing stopping business owners paying a decent wage and hiring English people.

Like you said though, it is easier for politicians to tap into the resentment and blame immigrants instead.
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