2,000 points WoC

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2,000 points WoC

Post by Colonel Voss » Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:02 pm

Alright, this list is keeping in mind all the rule change rules. This is also meant to serve as a foundation for expansion (hence why the horsemen have a standard)

Sorcerer of Nurgle w/ lvl 2 and 2 dispel scrolls

Sorcerer of Slaneesh w/ lvl 2 and book a secrets

12 Chaos warriors of Nurgle w/ shield and command
16 Marauders of Nurgle w/ shield and command
16 Marauders of Slaneesh w/ light armor, flail and musician
10 warhounds
5 marauder horsemen w/ throwing spears and command
5 chaos knights of nurgle w/ command and warbanner
3 trolls
2 chaos spawn of nurgle
1 chaos chariot of nurgle
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Re: 2,000 points WoC

Post by Primarch » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:17 am

Well, after having a read through of your list and the chaos army book, it looks like you have the makings of a good solid list there.
I'm not sure how good the spawn are going to be, the 2d6 move thing could be a real pain if you roll low, but everything else looks good. The warriors and knights are going to be hard to get rid of with their marks of nurgle, awesome armour saves and high stats.
The only weakness I can see in the list (and this is true of a lot of stuff in the WoC book), is that your marauders/hounds are going to die to missile fire very quickly. T3 with no save as standard makes for a soft target. At least if the opponent is shooting the marauders then he isnt shooting the knights I guess.
I would hesitate to put full command into the fast cavalry. If they get charged then that banner is 100 free VP to your opponent. Mike usually just has a musician in his fast cav to allow them to regroup easily, which seems like enough. If you're hitting the targets that you want to hit i.e. warmachine crews, then you dont need a champion or a banner in the unit. If you're hitting something else like a solid unit of warriors, your fast cavalry wont last long.
The list looks like it will be fun to play against. Have fun getting it painted and I'll be happy to give you a game sometime.
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Re: 2,000 points WoC

Post by Colonel Voss » Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:10 am

You make some good points. Let me see if I can't clarify some of my thoughts.

With regards to the spawn, yeah unpredictable, but if I happen to roll high at first, they suddenly become a high priority threat (no need to let them come into your lines and stall you. If they roll slow, then they'll be fresh when they do get to your battered lines. The mark makes them just that much harder to deal with.

Both marauder units have a 6+ save, not much but as you pointed out, they're there to draw some fire. The flail armed ones are more of a pin cushion to prevent harm to my sorcerer and tie up units on a need by need basis. and the nurgle one is just going to be harder to get ride of.

You are right, the horsemen right now don't need some of the bling they got, I just couldn't resist the standard bearer :lol: . However, once I get two more boxes, there will be times when merging them all together for a late game strike force will come in handy during objective based games.
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Re: 2,000 points WoC

Post by Lovejoy » Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:29 pm

I'm doing WoC at some point and have bought an army pretty much since the price rise was due.. I'll keep an eye on this.
I'll just throw a few idle thoughts out.
It's hard to decide on builds at the moment, or even how best to glue the models at this stage I'm finding.
Before i knew the rumours about 8th, I have expected to have to go the mounted route, but that isn't looking so important now what with infantry looking better.
There is no lack of choices in this army book, but then everything is very, very expensive points wise. :(
I think that dogs are designed to die, most tourney players seem not to use extra points on getting that 6+ scaly skin save for this reason. Mind you 8th may be throwing out a lot more missiles, so its a measly price to pay for a bit of protection, I think I can see the logic and will probably use that.
The marauder cav with flails can a marks, so nurgle will protect them a bit more if you can spare the points. Not cheap though.
Banners, while a bit silly on marauder cavalry in 7th are going to be necessary unfortunately, given the 8th ed rules on claiming objectives, so in they go.
I am going to have a block of 20 marauder infantry with shields. Probably mark of nurgle again to give them some durability.
16 with flails may get mark of khorne. They may also get used with Wulfrik for his backdoor action, hunting warmachines and other weak bits and bobs.
As for warriors, I think it's probably worth running chosen, a few extra points for extra WS, and that eye of the gods roll at the beginning of the game seems pretty good. Why not, eh?
Some very brief model thoughts -
I wont be touching the ogres or dragon ogres..the latter seem pretty good game wise, but the models for both of these seem to be some of the worst in the fantasy range. Can't bring myself...
Also - chaos marauder heads are not great..but these models can be transformed from awful to really rather nice by using the plentiful spare chaos marauder cav heads from their sprue (18 in total, so 13 extras). They make a massive difference to the look of the cm infantry, I am very happy with mine now after this little switcheroo.

-Edited for forgotten things.
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Re: 2,000 points WoC

Post by Colonel Voss » Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:35 pm

Some interesting thoughts here. Let me give my thoughts on what you said.
Lovejoy wrote: It's hard to decide on builds at the moment, or even how best to glue the models at this stage I'm finding.
Before i knew the rumours about 8th, I have expected to have to go the mounted route, but that isn't looking so important now what with infantry looking better.
You're right. My WoC went on the back burner when I found out about the mounted route, but with the 8th rumors, they've been resurrected.
There is no lack of choices in this army book, but then everything is very, very expensive points wise. :(
I think that dogs are designed to die, most tourney players seem not to use extra points on getting that 6+ scaly skin save for this reason. Mind you 8th may be throwing out a lot more missiles, so its a measly price to pay for a bit of protection, I think I can see the logic and will probably use that.
I can see your logic. Personally I want my unit to be as expendible as possible and if my opponent does shoot at them, then no lose to me as he's not shooting at my more dangerous units.
The marauder cav with flails can a marks, so nurgle will protect them a bit more if you can spare the points. Not cheap though.
Banners, while a bit silly on marauder cavalry in 7th are going to be necessary unfortunately, given the 8th ed rules on claiming objectives, so in they go.
I agree with the cav w/flails. If the current rumors of needing 2+ depth to cause a unit to lose their flanking ability, then a large unit of cav will be necessary. I'm looking at 15 strong for now. What do you think?
I am going to have a block of 20 marauder infantry with shields. Probably mark of nurgle again to give them some durability.
16 with flails may get mark of khorne. They may also get used with Wulfrik for his backdoor action, hunting warmachines and other weak bits and bobs.
A large block is a good idea and I will be increasing both of my blocks in the future. With regards to wulfrik and 16 with flails, don't you think that is a bit of an overkill?
As for warriors, I think it's probably worth running chosen, a few extra points for extra WS, and that eye of the gods roll at the beginning of the game seems pretty good. Why not, eh?
Agreed, very happily at that :lol:
I wont be touching the ogres or dragon ogres..the latter seem pretty good game wise, but the models for both of these seem to be some of the worst in the fantasy range. Can't bring myself...


Add in the chaos trolls as well. I'll be using river trolls with a few modifications from the spawn box and if I take ogres, then I'll use the ones from the ogre kingdoms.

On a side note, the hellcannon is awesome, my only question is which god should it be dedicated to, nurgle or slaneesh?
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Re: 2,000 points WoC

Post by Lovejoy » Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:03 am

Well, I think the hellcannon fluff just has some cobblers about chaos dwarves having bound some unspecified demon inside it, as they are wont to do. The usual, then..
It seems like it provides much needed shooting for WoC, as well as being entertaining if it starts rampaging about.
I think its guess range right now, which means in 8th it may not be, as I think players will be able to measure any time. That will make it a pretty potent thing to field.
Speaking of bigger/rare units, I have had my eye on a giant for a while, though don't really know how they perform. Chaos spawn are probably more cost affective, but they aren't as amusing as a big horned giant with cloven hooves and a man in a cage. And a cow. Again, pricey though.
Hmm, you may be right about the marauders, On reflection 16 with Wulfrik may be overkill.
I may take 5 or 6 off and put them on the other unit... I think Wulfrik would need a bunker of 10 though at least though if I want to use him.
There are probably more effective/game options than him, but you have to have at least one fun unit otherwise why bother.
Interesting about the 2 deep thing for cava;ry. I have 10 marauder cav on the sprue, I had planned to use them as 2 units of 5 but now I'm not sure.
I'm also tempted by throwing axes on them maybe. S4, but woeful range. Better than nothing though.
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Re: 2,000 points WoC

Post by Primarch » Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:52 pm

I think light cavalry shouldnt be used in large blocks. They will eat up points, die quickly and achieve very little. Light Cav are a nusiance unit used for hunting warmachines, engaging small units like bowmen, march blocking and baiting fanatics. Taking 15 guys with flails, full command, light armour and mark of nurgle will leave you with a unit that is still only LD 7, has T3 throughout and a 5+ save at best. 4 Dead models and the unit has a high chance of breaking.

If you want marauders to stick around and be ablative wounds for your real threats, give them the mark of Slaanesh. Sure, enemy units no longer take a -1 to hit them, but suddenly they cant be chased off with a panic test and are also immune to fear and terror. Ld7 gives you a 41% chance of the unit fleeing off the board the first time they get shot at. If you have a unit strength of over 5 you can potentially panic other units as well.

The same thing goes for the marauders on foot as well. Mark of Nurgle may make them harder to hit, but not by much. Mark of Slaanesh means you dont care if you get hit, the unit will fight to the death.
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Re: 2,000 points WoC

Post by Lovejoy » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:38 pm

I think I agree with a lot of that. With the marauder cav, I'll keep them smallish..they are fast cav after all. They should be cheap and cheerful.
I will go for 5 or 6 and see how that turns out. Flails are too good not to have, cap it off with slaanesh for a decent cost effective unit. I'll run 2 units I reckon.

That said, medium cavalry are supposedly getting decent in 8th edition, right? Who knows, we might all be reappraising the idea of shields and light armour on this type of unit, which was unthinkable before really.

I stll think the full command may be a necessary evil in 8th, we just don't know yet. Just using a musician makes sense at the moment, but there are rumours floating around that all 3 command models are going to have specific roles tied to movement and capturing objectives, etc so we may well need them all, like it or not. The champion may even have a role in this way. At least out armies will look snazzier.

Fear and terror are getting a nerfing, but mitigating them is still going to be important. So yeah, good call on Slaanesh. looks a good anti-psychology tool, and cheap as chips - while we musn't forget that most units get to re-roll panic tests in WoC, slaanesh covers more than just that problem i suppose.

I think ALL the marks are appealing but a bit situational - fantastic in some cases, a mistake in others. Very dependent on what you are facing. But slaanesh is the safest option maybe, just plus in most cases. It's not going to be one you regret taking, wheras the others might be if things don't go to plan. I think if I knew the enemy I was facing I would tailor the marks to that though, horses for courses. Slaanesh is a safe bet though.

For both marauder cavalry and infantry, we should be considering Khorne as a mark too, not just for our additional weapon wielding Warriors. After all, frenzy can give the immune to psychology anyway and the additional attack will be nice. I don't think army wide its sensible, but think this will be the way forward with the Wulfrik idea or a unit of two of rabid nutters to mix things up a bit.
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Re: 2,000 points WoC

Post by Colonel Voss » Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:11 pm

So with how much information I have for 8th edition, I wanted to talk about just a few changes I plan on implementing with an eye to the 3,000 pnt mark.

This army translates really well into 3,000 points. Double up the warriors and put a BSB in there. Double the knights or maybe increase to 8 and increase the marauders to 20 (nurgle) and 30 (slaneesh) with command respectively. I've also been thinking of reversing this role and making the nurgles the ones with the flails. The marauder cavalry also works well adding up to 15 with command. Extra march and shoot first thing out of the gate is a nice bonus and the merging of the stat lines of the cannon crew mean that more shooting is good IMO as I'll be needing 6s to wound no matter what. Also the trolls add a brutal close combat and disgusting vomit option. Throw in a hellcannon and add in a lord on a demon steed and you have a good 3,000 points.

The one unit that is gone now are the spawn. I'll bring them back at some point but more of them. 2 just won't cut it with the new stubborn rules and the step up.

With regards to marks (continuing what lovejoy was talking about), I think Khorne is going to be increasing in strength with the new rules on frenzy. However during this build up phase, I am focusing on Nurge and Slaneesh for ease of painting (each follower of the dark gods get their special color scheme) and just a personal preference for the disgusting and the perverse. Later on, I'll have a smattering of Khorne, Tzeentch and undivided, but my main two will be papa Nurgle and the prince of pleasure.
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