Why aren't you playing?

[Primarch]

More and more recently, I have been looking at historical games with a view towards buying up a small force and playing if I can. Some historical games seem pretty popular on the world wide web and a few even get played here in Japan.

So why dont more people play them?

Historical games were the starting point for the hobby. Without historical games covering everything from when Jesus was a wee nipper to the allies storming Berlin, there would be no Warhammer or Warmachine. Little Wars, a game written by H. G. Wells (a famous SF writer for the uneducated among us) was made in 1913 and is seen as the first tabletop wargame. My first encounter with 'wargaming' was my father's collection of Airfix Spitfires and some 1/72 scale WW2 soldiers I got for a birthday present.

I'm sure a lot of us have some interest in at least one area of history. After watching the British TV show Sharpe, I had an interest in Napoleonics, and the drama Rome has sparked a curiosity in Roman Legions. Having watched dozens of movies based on WW2 as well, I have a strong interest in that period. Lots of movies, TV shows and even video games are based on historic conflicts and can provide some inspiration for gaming. (I recommend the PC game Mount and Blade).

Personally, I love a model in uniform. Seeing dozens of ranked up figures all painted nicely is a pleasure for a lot of us. Historical uniforms may not appeal to everyone, but I for one am very happy with how my first block of Waterloo era British Infantry look as a unit and I am keen to expand on them some more. Whether you fancy painting up the bare skin and warpaint of a band of Celts, the tartan of a unit of Highlanders, or the blue of a detachment of Union soldiers, the variety and depth of character of historical minis is undeniable.

So many times I have heard people complaining about the imbalances in the popular fantasy and SF systems that we usually play. Deathstars, Cheesey Units and Codex Creep are not found in historical games. Napoleoon wont be cleaving through your lines single handed, Caesar doesn't have an invulnerable save and 15 attacks. A unit of Norman Knights doesn't reroll its attacks and damage. In historical games, all the models are roughly the same. Some may have a better chance of hitting or worse morale, but no one unit will cripple the enemy army (unless of course they get some VERY lucky dice rolls).

Finally we come to the matter of price. In Historical games, every army is a horde army by the standards of our regular range of games. Surely it must be expensive to play them? Not really. Victrix, The Perry Brothers and Warlord Games to name but a few all do some suprisingly low priced models. For the cost of one GW Battleforce of 25 marines and a tank, I can buy 120 Roman Infantry, or a Brigade of Confederate Infantry ready to make war with the North. For the cost of the Skaven army I recently bought which contained a total of about 250 miniatures, I can get a Napoleonic Era army that has nearly 600 miniatures, though with no giant bells or lightning cannons. Historical games are actually ridiculously cheap in comparison to most of the SF and Fantasy games, so long as you are playing the 'popular' eras.

So why aren't you playing?

[me_in_japan]

All fair points, so I will do my best to write a thoughtful response.

Why don't I play historicals:

1) I quake in fear at the thought of painting a historical army. I don't want a slapdash painted army. I want each model to look nice. This is just not practical with historicals. I have neither the time nor the inclination to paint tumpty-hundred identical models.

2) I don't feel any interest in historical stuff (i.e. history.) What appeals to me with SF and fantasy games is the world creation. The myth-building. I'm rather the same with video games, actually. Modern Warfare: totally uninterested. Don't care how realistic it is. Unreal 3: Heck yeah, sign me up for the Dark Matter gun. I just really get a kick out of seeing imagined things being made real. It's kinda like, why attempt to recreate history, when it already actually happened. Why not use your imagination and make something completely new?

3) I like the fancy made-up stuff. In fact:

For the cost of the Skaven army I recently bought which contained a total of about 250 miniatures, I can get a Napoleonic Era army that has nearly 600 miniatures, though with no giant bells or lightning cannons.

Giant Bells and Lightning cannons are why I play.

That's pretty much my answer, although I totally appreciate that it need not apply to anybody else. Just chipping in my tuppence worth

[ennui]

Because why would I want to shoot a blunderbuss at a boring old Englishman at some war I learned about in school (yuck!) when I could crush mutant dragonspawn under the steel boots of giant robots that shoot eldritch bolts at giant alligators with voodoo magic and oh yeah!!!!!

So wait, why are you wasting your time doing homework for history class?

[Primarch]

So wait, why are you wasting your time doing homework for history class?

Because I like history.
Besides, its not like you need to do much. Some folks may demand that you have exactly the right colour buttons on your cavalry model's tunics, but they are the same folk who would complain that the skin tone on your alligator men is too light.

why attempt to recreate history, when it already actually happened. Why not use your imagination and make something completely new?

Historical games don't actually have to be 100% historically accurate. If they were, what would be the point of playing them? You'd already know the outcome. You're free to create your own "What if" scenarios in the same way that you dont have to follow the fluff when playing 40k or warmahordes.

And because you can field cool models like these: (Sadly no Gatormen, but I can get those elsewhere)

[Colonel Voss]

I don't have money. FoW is enough historical for me for now.

[job]

I don't have money. FoW is enough historical for me for now.

Amen, comrade.

I Love History. I Love Historical games. They appeal so much more to me. Ever since I read my first novel, The Trojan War (an abridged version), I've loved historic warfare. Admittedly, this was the seed for my love of classics, military history, history, war games, strategy games and maybe computer games, too. Historic tabletop games are right up my alley.

But, for something or other's sake, stop with the flavor-of-the-month interest in game systems, Prim. You are kind of a piviotal guy in influencing the direction of the group's interest. You've almost single-handedly created a Cutlass gaming ring. (Bravo and Kudos to you, man) But this endless change of heart is never going to create interest in any single game system or genre. At least that is the way I feel.

Roman era historics look really awesome. This is something I would really be interested in, but I can't jump on the band wagon for something that is just a "fling". Especially if it puts me into $100 investment or so. I need to see that this is going to be something I can buy, paint over several months and then enjoy many battles with a few opponents. I don't want to get into something that I shelve and dust-off after my gaming shelf gets cluttered and I have to sell and throw things away.

[job]

All fair points, so I will do my best to write a thoughtful response.

Why don't I play historicals:

1) I quake in fear at the thought of painting a historical army. I don't want a slapdash painted army. I want each model to look nice. This is just not practical with historicals. I have neither the time nor the inclination to paint tumpty-hundred identical models.

2) I don't feel any interest in historical stuff (i.e. history.) What appeals to me with SF and fantasy games is the world creation. The myth-building. I'm rather the same with video games, actually. Modern Warfare: totally uninterested. Don't care how realistic it is. Unreal 3: Heck yeah, sign me up for the Dark Matter gun. I just really get a kick out of seeing imagined things being made real. It's kinda like, why attempt to recreate history, when it already actually happened. Why not use your imagination and make something completely new?

3) I like the fancy made-up stuff. In fact:

For the cost of the Skaven army I recently bought which contained a total of about 250 miniatures, I can get a Napoleonic Era army that has nearly 600 miniatures, though with no giant bells or lightning cannons.

Giant Bells and Lightning cannons are why I play.

That's pretty much my answer, although I totally appreciate that it need not apply to anybody else. Just chipping in my tuppence worth

While fantasy/ sci-fi provide infinite ability to imagine and create things, historic models provide infinite ability to apply realism, research, love of history and imagination in each model. I totally disagree with you that models look alike. (Lets say that because 28mm and 15mm/6mm scales are so far apart in size and base unit that one 28mm figure is equal to one 15mm/6mm stand (a team of 4 members. Think of some of the difference between model painting and diorama painting.) Depending on a painters preference, I think there is no imaginable reason why models have to look alike. Historics certainly don't look more alike then Space Marines, and certainly most historic armies had far less standardization of equipment and look then Space Marine chapters.

Of course there are no lightning cannons, granted.

But there are woad warriors, observation balloons, armored trains, dinky tanketts, portable battle shrines, and lots of other stuff.

[The Other Dave]

Interestingly, one of the things I was most worried about with historicals turns out to be almost less of a problem than with invented worlds. One of the big worries I hear about (and had myself) is painting - "getting it wrong" somehow. Looking into both Napoleonics and WWII, though, it turns out that there often wasn't a whole lot of regularity out there in the real world. I keep reading about how dyes varied widely in very short spaces of place and time, how no two batches of olive drab paint ever came out the same, how camouflage patterns weren't codified until months after the fighting began, how soldiers mixed and matched pieces of kit and gear as time passed, how slapdash painting sometimes meant that unit markings went on crooked, for crying out loud. And we don't even need to get into Ancients, where uniforms and colors and even formations and tactics are often lost to the mists of time.

I don't know. I never thought I'd be interested in historicals, but it turns out to be plenty engaging - it helps that I do enjoy doing simple research and learning about the history behind the army I'm collecting and painting, not only to get some context for the games but also just for learning's sake. It probably also helps that I've found myself more and more interested in the "game" side of wargaming as time passes, so it doesn't matter to me if a fun game is fantasy, or sci-fi, or historical, or what, as long as it's a fun game. The more the merrier!

[Primarch]

But, for something or other's sake, stop with the flavor-of-the-month interest in game systems, Prim. You are kind of a piviotal guy in influencing the direction of the group's interest. You've almost single-handedly created a Cutlass gaming ring. (Bravo and Kudos to you, man) But this endless change of heart is never going to create interest in any single game system or genre.

For some reason you seem to be under the impression that I stop playing these games. Of all the game systems I have bought, the only one I gave up on was Secrets of the Third Reich as the rules are very poorly written and make it impossible to play the game. Since you joined our little circle I have bought Dystopian Wars because someone else really wanted to play, Dust Tactics because its a fast little game that I can take with me to gaming events without needing terrain and Cutlass. I have played 2 games of Dystopian Wars and both I and Ennui are keen to play again. I have played/ran 6 games of Dust and 8 games of Cutlass.

Here's how things usually work.
A new game is released that looks cool and interesting.
I buy the rules (because I like reading rules, I'm just that kind of a nerd) and enough models for 2 small starter armies.
I take the game to Joshin and run a couple of games of it.
Everyone nods their heads and agrees that it is a good game that they want to play again.
Everyone goes home and on their way gets hit in the head by some kind of amnesia ray.

I learnt my lesson about amnesia rays a while ago. With Cutlass I made sure to a) build some interest beforehand. b) make sure the models were available for people to buy so the amnesia ray wouldnt work on them and c) make some awesome terrain.

With the Napoleonics, I have a willing partner in crime building some Prussians already and we've both discussed getting some Romans/Celts to do some ancient style wargaming. So long as at least one other person is willing to play a game, I will do my level best to accomodate them.

And with regards to flavour-of-the-month:

I would be interested. Just give me lots of time to plan this into my schedule. Heck, I might even invest in some models if I really get addicted after this Sunday.

Watch out for amnesia rays on your way home.

[job]

But, for something or other's sake, stop with the flavor-of-the-month interest in game systems, Prim. You are kind of a piviotal guy in influencing the direction of the group's interest. You've almost single-handedly created a Cutlass gaming ring. (Bravo and Kudos to you, man) But this endless change of heart is never going to create interest in any single game system or genre.

For some reason you seem to be under the impression that I stop playing these games. Of all the game systems I have bought, the only one I gave up on was Secrets of the Third Reich as the rules are very poorly written and make it impossible to play the game. Since you joined our little circle I have bought Dystopian Wars because someone else really wanted to play, Dust Tactics because its a fast little game that I can take with me to gaming events without needing terrain and Cutlass. I have played 2 games of Dystopian Wars and both I and Ennui are keen to play again. I have played/ran 6 games of Dust and 8 games of Cutlass.

Here's how things usually work.
A new game is released that looks cool and interesting.
I buy the rules (because I like reading rules, I'm just that kind of a nerd) and enough models for 2 small starter armies.
I take the game to Joshin and run a couple of games of it.
Everyone nods their heads and agrees that it is a good game that they want to play again.
Everyone goes home and on their way gets hit in the head by some kind of amnesia ray.

I learnt my lesson about amnesia rays a while ago. With Cutlass I made sure to a) build some interest beforehand. b) make sure the models were available for people to buy so the amnesia ray wouldnt work on them and c) make some awesome terrain.

With the Napoleonics, I have a willing partner in crime building some Prussians already and we've both discussed getting some Romans/Celts to do some ancient style wargaming. So long as at least one other person is willing to play a game, I will do my level best to accomodate them.

And with regards to flavour-of-the-month:

I would be interested. Just give me lots of time to plan this into my schedule. Heck, I might even invest in some models if I really get addicted after this Sunday.

Watch out for amnesia rays on your way home.

I agree with your thoughts and sentiments...

BUT I regard you, Prim, as a threat to the peace of home! You peddle games like a drug dealer peddles crack! "Acomodate" means "hook" and "addict". Perverse!

I've got ToD peddling Epic. MtP and ToD, 6mm Napoleonics. A number of others can be accused of trying to subconsciously spread Warmahordes. Jus and Koji have already helped buy heaps of GW stuff. I hear 40kers are trying to resuscitate that game. I of course try my best to peddle FOW, and now Voss is like my Seki- doppelganger. This will destroy me in good time.

But, you, Prim, peddle soooo many games. I have to watch out for you!

Sidenote: The thing about Epic is that I have a full set of rules before I even play the game. Also some of the entry items are modestly priced and look easy enough to paint. Oops! I think I'm screwed already.