Historical Games, a year in review and a look ahead

[Lovejoy]

As I said earlier in the thread, I can't imagine expanding my French for Napoleonics. I have if I remember rightly 2 line infantry units, 1 old guard, 3 cav units from light to heavy, and 1 cannon. I have a couple of extra unpainted cannon but can't face doing more for BP because no matter how many I have, it's never enough! Even though it too, an age to do only that measly (for BP) force..
I might play a BP Naps game in June for the Waterloo Anniversary, but it'd probably be a one off.

[Primarch]

I think that is probably the biggest problem with BP. All of the really awesome battles involve so many men that gaming them, especially with a smallish group, becomes something of an impossibility at 28mm scale. As much as it pains me to admit it, 6mm does seem more realistic for doing these things justice, unless you only focus on one period and that is all that you do.
On the Warlord forum there is a link to a game of Waterloo in 28mm played on an 18' by 12' table. It looks absolutely spectacular, but far beyond the means of our current historical group without a massive investment in time, money and effort. A while back I calculated out the required number of minis for Hastings, a comparatively small battle. At a ratio of 20:1 for the infantry and 10:1 for cavalry, you'd need 670 infantry and 100 cavalry for a full refight. It's doable in 28mm, but more manageable at smaller scales. 28s look much nicer, but 6s do seem to have a lot going for them. I do prefer 28s to be honest though.

[Spevna]

As far as historical gaming goes,I'm interested in;

Bolt Action
Weird Bolt Action
Saga
Ronin

I've got rules and minis for those,must need to get them painted.

I'm keen to try Lion Rampant as medievil skirmish looks fun!

I'm thinking that this year shall be the year on Judge Dredd and historical for me mainly.

[ashmie]

I was speaking with MiJ about the historical today and I think the pros are you can essentially roleplay a period of military history which stirs the imagination and have a lot of what if scenarios, or better still a true to life, how it may have turned out simulation. The cons are, when you get to fielding big armies, all the minis are the same and there is a lot of batch painting to put in. So unless you are very disciplined about painting, a single historical army can slow up your painting backlog if you let it. I say this as I prepare to get somewhere with my ECW. With that in mind I found that reading up on the ECW period was quite a sobering and depressing read as it turns out and that it deterred me from wanting to paint any more Cromwell or Royalists. The whole thing is really very sad and was a huge tragedy for many it does beg the question, why am I doing this again? Oh yeah the uniforms look good for the paints. So the key for me is if you are doing historical, keep it true and respectful or keep it very very light. Don't lose sight of the fact that these battles happened and need to be given the respect they deserve. Warlord have some minis of dead Prussians for casualty markers which could be losing sight of things somewhat. I own them of course. Thinking it cool at the time
There are definitely periods of history I wouldn't want to simulate. It's tough where to know what is and isn't in good taste. Anything 20th century and after I find slightly uncomfortable playing. I know my Grandad wouldn't appreciate it if he could see me fielding Prussians either. Still it's good to try different things I guess. Tough one. I think as long as things aren't too cartoony in historical than it needn't be in bad taste.

[Primarch]

It's probably not worth dwelling on it that much. So long as you aren't laughing at the whole thing or making off-colour jokes, I don't see the harm. Most of us probably have a better grasp on what really happened than most lay-people simply because we've spent more time reading up on the subject.
As an example:
My grandfather was part of the BEF assisting the French during the German blitzkrieg. During the retreat to Dunkirk, my grandfather and the rest of his unit were captured by German forces, specifically the Waffen-SS. Seeing that prisoners would slow down the advance, the SS unit took my grandfather and his friends out to a field and lined them up to be shot. Luckily a German army major was passing by and stopped the execution. My grandfather spent the rest of the war in a POW camp in Germany and was finally released in 1945. He went home, married my grandmother and had a family. Thanks to some unknown German officer, I am here today.
Now, I have no problems at all playing games with my German Heer force and I have also started collecting an SS unit. The way I see it, so long as what I do on the tabletop recreates the actions that took place and not the massacres, so long as it is done in good taste and so long as we don't forget that these were real events, there is no shame or recrimination in having an interest in any period, collecting plastic or metal soldiers or in pushing them around a table, rolling dice and having a good time with friends.

[ashmie]

That's a very positive way of looking at it. My Grandfather actually enjoyed his time in the war and spent the rest of his life going on about the discipline and the camaraderie it gave them. He bored his kids senseless with it where as me and his other grandchildren were always happy to listen to his exciting adventures from long ago. It was a victory and a triumph for them in a very dark time so he was proud to come thorough it and see peace. I think he was lucky with his postings, note, having time off during the D Day landings so he could get married! Later being sent to Europe following the initial wave and Market Garden.
Still, your point is valid. We must preserve the history tactfully and tastefully. I have only ever gamed with respect for the period, be it WW2 or Napoleonic. I think my Grandad would be more miffed at why I was playing the Hun and not the Brits. Still multiculturalism wasn't the thing back in his day. Not in Moss Side Manchester anyway. Lots of flat caps and pipes though.
It should be seen as a positive. If we take the stance of simulating war as bad then that kind of throws a spanner in the works for most tabletop games and video games doesn't it. Keep alive the old tales so man won't make the same mistakes again and again. That works for me for now.

I'm pretty sure I remember reading about that Dunkirk incident or one similar Prim around Belgium. There was a big book on the tragedy. I also knew a great uncle who had a similar experience and was also in that BEF campaign. For Sussex I believe. Reg, would never talk about the war to anyone. The exact opposite of my Grandfather.

[Lovejoy]

As far as historical gaming goes,I'm interested in;

Bolt Action
Weird Bolt Action
Saga
Ronin

I've got rules and minis for those,must need to get them painted.

I'm keen to try Lion Rampant as medievil skirmish looks fun!

I'm thinking that this year shall be the year on Judge Dredd and historical for me mainly.

Yep, me too for the above with knobs on. Bolt Action WWW is the only one I hadn't considered recently, but I have a hankering for the Dalek invasion of Walmington-on-Sea as I've occasionally mentioned..Saga, Ronin, Lion Rampant are all hopefully going to get done in 2015. Of course, I didn't mention Dredd as it's not historical but that is going to be a mainstay, oh yes.

Lion Rampant seems to have been written by someone involved with Song of Blades and Heroes Arthurian ruleset, which I imaging will make Mr. Spevna go 'oooh'.

@Ashmie and Prim, on the tastefulness of gaming real life - Another anecdote, my Dad was a D-Day veteran, not with us now sadly (that sounds spurious I know, but I'm 41 now and he was pushing 50 when I was born). He bought me tiny Airfix 10mm Gurkhas and commandoes, 54mm coal-scuttle helmetted Germans, metal 'Britain's' Late War British (they also manufactured the farm miniatures, which I had lots of, which I would never tell my parents were a bit on the dull side). My Dad even built a little wooden D-Day landing craft to ferry the British into battle. He told me as much about the war as a 9 year old could take in, which wasn't a lot, but some of it was pretty grim and if anything the experience in France and later a ruined Germany had made him more of a pacifist. Despite this didn't seem to think that playing toy soldiers was a bad thing, as long as I knew what was what to some extent.
As well as the airfix WWII there were tiny Native Americans and ACW Cav, so he sowed the seeds for this malarkey.

[The Other Dave]

I think 2015 is going to be the Year of Historicals for me - although I kind of suspect, as I've said to some people in chats in person, that we may start to find that the way to go is to collect a couple armies for our era and conflict of choice and do that reciprocal gaming thing as much as anything.

For myself, I do want to start on Bolt Action, and I've decided to not be ornery and go with the 28mm flow - although the Perrys' plastic North Africa boxes are what tempt me, as the miniatures look lovely and I've always been attracted to that conflict. It would be quite incompatible with the late war Western front everyone is collecting, though, so I may just wait on that and collect some late war Germans. I do want to collect with an eye to trying out Chain of Command as well, but since both games are based on historical force organization it shouldn't be hard at all.

Pikey and myself have been quietly (not to mention very very slowly) working on our 6mm Napoleonics for a while, too, and I want to get enough painted to get in a game of that some day soon.

As some of you know, I'm also keen to go full grognard and try out some Ancients, and I'm collecting some 6mm stuff with Thermopylae in mind. Obviously that would be a collect-both-armies thing.

Ronin was good fun too, and I may dip into that as well, but it looks like I may have quite a lot on my resolutions plate for this year as it is, since I also want to round out my DzC forces and finish up my Middle-Earth project. We shall see!

[Konrad]

6mm Napoleonics! Man, back in the day at the FLGS only the old guys played that sort of stuff Oh!.....oh no......no........

[The Other Dave]

6mm Napoleonics! Man, back in the day at the FLGS only the old guys played that sort of stuff Oh!.....oh no......no........

Embrace your inner grognard!