Overlord - Feedback and Review

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Primarch
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Overlord - Feedback and Review

Post by Primarch » Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:40 pm

Overlord is finally Over. I must admit to feeling somewhat relieved. At times it felt like I would never get everything finished on time. I had a day of not painting yesterday and it just felt wierd. :)
Some of you have already posted (very positive) feedback on the event, which is very much appreciated. I'd like to avoid any overly gushing praise and focus on a somewhat more critical review of the day here. Basically, what worked well, what didn't and what would you change if we did another game like that?

From my own point of view:
Some things worked out very well. The beach area was a mess of wrecked tanks, hordes of infantry slowly grinding forwards and a frantic and well-fought defence by the German Festungs Division.
Deep in the inland zones, the British and American Paras mounted a stoic blockade of the roads as more and more German troops streamed into the area.
The game looked amazing, with hundreds of models covering the table in an epic display. From the aesthetic side of our hobby, the game was an outstanding success. I heard one person comment that they weren't sure if we were playing a game or setting up a massive diorama. We also had about half a dozen people stop by for a look, which was great. Thanks for stopping by.

Some things did not go quite as I had hoped, though I think it was mainly from my own optimistic (perhaps unrealistic) image of how the game would go down.
My first self-criticism is that the game didn't run as quickly as I had imagined it would. This is in part down to the sheer scale of things. My estimates for how the game should unfold were fairly accurate (First minis off the beaches by turn 4, pressure on the paras building up on turn 3, timing of reinforcements etc.), but the time taken per turn was about 50% more than I had allowed for. Turn 5 was basically over before it began, with no way to get the tanks doing very much except trundling down the road a bit. A few more turns would have seen things get down to the wire.
My second issue with the game was player involvement. Again, this came down to a time issue. With the way I had scheduled reinforcements to arrive, some of the German players ended up with little to do in the early part of the afternoon. I noticed a fair few cell phones being used, which means that I miscalculated things. For that I do apologize. Bolt Action is supposed to keep people actively involved in the game due to the dice draw mechanic. If players felt like they weren't playing, that's a problem that needs to be addressed.
The third and final point that requires a solution is the order dice themselves. Despite the fact that I wasn't playing, I was knackered by 5pm. Keeping the dice coming out in succession, allocating them to players and monitoring how each end of the table was doing, was pretty exhausting and a full time job.
Also, I would like to offer my humble apologies for the state of the roads, they curled up and looked awful. They were fairly flat when I packed them away. I'll have to look at unwarping them for future use.

So there you have it. A great looking game, but plenty of room for improvement.

Thank you to everyone who came along to play, or just to see what all the fuss was about. The effort that went into the armies, (yes, even the 21st Panzers), was evident by the sheer volume of fantastically painted minis on the table. Thank you to everyone who contributed terrain. And a big thank you to Kojibear, without whom the beaches would have never left my hobby room.

So have at it folks. Feedback both positive and critical if you could please. I'd like to try something like this again, but first of all we need to patch up the system a little.

Thank you!
P.
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job
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Re: Overlord - Feedback and Review

Post by job » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:21 am

As the 21st panzer player I must make my amends. :D Truely my apologies for never buttoning down and finishing those transports. I felt embarrassed with those grey models before the great battlefield of lovely painted minis. And I'm glad my painted panther got into some snapshots. :)

I thought the mission unfolded brilliantly. The beach looked exactly as I think it might have been imagined by people. The British airborne ambushed a German herr patrol. There was a see-saw affair about the bridge that kept the 21st Panzer bottled up and blocked the 12th SS at the crossroads. Maybe the objectives in the back field were a bit difficult to reach, but I believe there was one more army of airborne imagined in the original plans, so all things considered it went down well.

Yes there were a few moments we looked at our cells, but I actually enjoyed the breaks from play to see the other parts of the field and chat with others (or lean back in the chair and disapaite for a moment). The only area of the field I think that might have been relatively quiet was the Caen area. The players had to bring up their reserves and the 101st were absent. Still, the Lehr and the 12th were able to see action.

Well done. It was great. I hope you have been generous to yourself with pats on the back. It will be a day long remembered.
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Primarch
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Re: Overlord - Feedback and Review

Post by Primarch » Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:56 pm

No-one else has anything to add?
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Mike the Pike
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Re: Overlord - Feedback and Review

Post by Mike the Pike » Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:49 pm

Hold your horses old bean. Keep your hair on and all that. I'll put pen to paper when I've recovered from the weekend ;)
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Re: Overlord - Feedback and Review

Post by YellowStreak » Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:33 am

How about we make the feedback simple to start with. For those who participated, name three things:
• Something that worked well
• Something that needs a small improvement
• Something that needs a bigger improvement or was lacking entirely

Here's my go:

Worked Well:
• Player attitude - everyone seemed to enjoy themselves and played in the spirit of the day.
• Reinforcement Rolls - Even though Satoru-san kept rolling 6's and Mike couldn't roll over a 3, I thought these worked pretty well.
• The sheer spectacle - walking around the table during the game, the sheer size and spectacle made it truly something to behold.

Small improvement:
• Player involvement. As Prim noted, some players were left with little to do at times, particularly Axis players at Caen (Mikball and Stooge). Given the likelihood that these players may not have much to do early, perhaps giving them command of the units behind the beaches would have been an option?
• Objective markers. The objective markers at the beachhead seemed to work well, but the ones inland seemed less 'important' in some way (e.g.: Nick captured his early but it didn't really mean anything other than tallying some VPs). If we were doing it again, perhaps the 'inland markers' should have represented the allied landing zones for the glider reinforcements. That way they have the opposite effect to the beach objectives in that they start under allied control and have to be captured by the Germans, and encourage the German forces to capture them to prevent flier landings or more glider reinforcements from arriving.
The allied airborne can still be incentivized to move out of their landing zones in order to attack the artillery firing on the beaches (to increase the desperation there, you could even consider having the artillery fire 'automatically' at the end of every turn, i.e.: not requiring an order dice.

Bigger Improvement:
• Dice pulls/activation/turns
I've lumped all these together. A lot of Stu's running around seemed to involve the dice pulls and distribution. I'm sure there are various methods that could be used to distribute dice, but perhaps something simple like a single dice pull means every player on that side activates a unit under their command could work? (Combined with no handing over dice to other players to allow 'super turns' of crazy activations).
I'd also consider a dice cap lower than the number of units potentially on the board (perhaps 12 or something), so that not every unit will necessarily activate every turn (like the 1st turn of the game). That makes for an additional layer of tactical decision-making.
One disappointment was we didn't get in as many turns as we would have liked. Perhaps having a turn timer or a lower dice count could have helped things keep moving more predictably (maybe do a but less stuff every turn, but have more turns).

I may think of some more, but here's my 2¢ for now. Certainly nothing was 'broken' about the day, it was awesome! :D
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Primarch
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Re: Overlord - Feedback and Review

Post by Primarch » Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:40 am

Mike the Pike wrote:I'll put pen to paper when I've recovered from the weekend ;)
If it's taking you a week to recover from a day of gaming (from which you piked early), you must be getting on a bit grandpa. :D :D :D

Going through my model cases, I appear to be in possession of 2 US Glider troops and 1 Maori medic.
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Re: Overlord - Feedback and Review

Post by kojibear » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:09 am

I, too, must be a grandpa. :D ;) Sorry for not commenting sooner.

As other noted, I, too, noticed that those waiting for reserves and rolling poorly with reserves down the Caen side of the battle were unable to get stuck in quickly and thus may have felt their enthusiasm drop a bit. Maybe it could be choose one unit which will always be able to come on, on a roll of a 2 or better each turn, while the others follow the normal game-decided reserve roll progression?

One comment made by Yellowstreak was:
I'd also consider a dice cap lower than the number of units potentially on the board (perhaps 12 or something), so that not every unit will necessarily activate every turn (like the 1st turn of the game). That makes for an additional layer of tactical decision-making.
I likes this idea and remember thinking about it during the game.

Another point, from the Allied Side, was that I felt that I wanted more tasks to get the paras stuck into, tasks that would achieve victory points would also have been cool. I enjoyed the secret objectives, but hoped that they might have also given victory points as well as the secret advantage. More of those would have been awesome, and may have spurred on more action. As it was, the paras and the 21st Panzer lads just hunkered down and traded shots. True, had I pushed into their zone to achieve said wished for tasks I may well have lost all my brave paras, but I really did enjoy all those little secret objectives. I'd love to have more, and earn more victory points that way.

That's all for now, but I'll keep updating the thread as more thoughts enter the 'old' noggin. :)

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Re: Overlord - Feedback and Review

Post by YellowStreak » Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:24 am

Primarch wrote:Going through my model cases, I appear to be in possession of 2 US Glider troops and 1 Maori medic.
I got a whole new army! Score! :lol:

Actually all my stuff from the day is still in the car. I'll unload once I'm back in Japan and check if anything is missing or if I picked up any 'extras'.

On topic, more secret objectives could be cool, I like that idea.
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Re: Overlord - Feedback and Review

Post by Lovejoy » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:41 pm

Sorry for not commenting more fully sooner. I think I mentioned it at the time, but I feel that there's no need to reinvent the wheel. I guess that dealing with the entire, mammoth scenario as 4 -5 separate games might work best in the end, as it would be speedier and be least complicated, and would save time waiting for the next dice allocation from the umpire, who was having to hare about to keep things on course.
By this I mean, each game could be treated as per a usual battle, drawing out own dice allocations etc, points roughly balanced (with some tweaks perhaps such as fewer points for those armies in strong defensive positions).
Parity between games could be achieved by having an allocation of 3 hours say, to seize the bridge (or defend it) or get off the beach (or not). Then we all check in and depending on success or failure, get fresh units or penalties etc. And on to the next battle scenario.

No easy answers really, but parallel games would get through the turns faster. Hope that makes some kind of sense.
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Re: Overlord - Feedback and Review

Post by Mikball » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:24 am

Sorry for the late feedback, been meaning to get in touch...

First of all, a big thank you to Prim for taking the time to not only organise the event, but also for building the great scenery, etc. Very much appreciated and I had a great time. Table looked epic before the landings, and even better once the action started.

I agree with the posts above on most points. Perhaps, as Yellowstreak said, one dice could allow activation of X amount of troops on one side to quicken things up. It might also allow others to get a better idea of what is happening across the board throughout the turns.

Personally speaking I'm not much of a power-gamer, and really just enjoy the narrative that comes out of games, win or lose. There was so much going on at each corner of the table that it was hard for me to follow what was going on story-wise after turn 2 (Fog of war, maybe?) and I guess as things ground to a crawl in some areas it became more difficult.

With Prim running laps of the table, the dice bag and constant rules queries I imagine it must have been even harder for him to follow, let alone enjoy the action.

Anyhoo, thanks again to Prim, and everyone who joined the day.

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