News from London

[Primarch]

I dont know if anyone else has been following this story on the net/TV. Essentially parts of London have become a warzone with rioters clashing with the police for 4 consecutive days. It started off when the police shot and killed a man in London, claiming he had shot at them first. This led to protests in the street, which quickly built up to a full scale riot. Now people across the city and beyond are looting and burning shops, destroying property and attacking both the police and the regular folk who live in the city.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... lence.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... oters.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... shops.html

Compare these actions with Japan where recently millions of the citizens faced water shortages, food shortages and black outs, in response to which they tightened their belts and said Ganbarimasu. Compare it with places like Libya, Syria and Egypt where people protested against their illegal and dictatorial governments in an attempt to improve their country and make a better life for themselves. The people rioting in London aren't doing it for a cause anymore, maybe their lives aren't fantastic, but the majority of those responsible are given money from the government to support themselves and their family, they dont work or are below the working age.

It really is sickening to see people acting this way. The damage already runs into the 10s of millions of pounds. (1 pound is currently 126 yen), with more to come. People have lost their jobs as their shops and places of work have been destroyed. Shops have been stripped bare of merchandise and then set alight. The hospitals are full of people who have been beaten and some of those responsible have even posted pictures of themselves on facebook showing off all the 'loot' they got. (Said individuals being arrested after being so stupid as to admit publicly to being involved).

For those of you who have friends and family in London, I hope that they are all safe and well. This just reinforces my belief that Japan is the right place for me, earthquakes and all.


P.

[me_in_japan]

a bloody embarrasment, is what it is.

Reading through the BBCs (many) articles on the story, it really seems that there is bugger all justification for it, other than "rioting and looting is exciting".

I think this quote sums it up for me:

When the BBC asked two youths why they were rioting, one responded: "Right, why are you going to miss the opportunity to get free stuff that's worth like loads of money?"

But they said it was not just about that, adding that it was in response to the government cuts.

One added: "How many people have they arrested really, though, 10? I'm not really bothered. I'll keep doing this every day until I get caught."

He said he might be shouted at or grounded when he returned home but he would "live with that".

He added that it would be his first offence "so I'm not really bothered".

I know that Britain has a long history of soft policing (compared to, say, Japan, with its 98% conviction rate, ahemhem) but quotes like this make me think that perhaps its time the UK police started getting just a weeeee bitty tougher on blatant crime. Say, for example, looting and rioting.

[Spevna]

My hometown had riots going on and a few shops were looted too. Not as bad as Hackney but still not good.

@ MiJ - I find Japan's 98% conviction rate one of the most worrying aspects about living here.

[me_in_japan]

@spev - i very much hope that your folks and friends back home are all ok.

re: 98% - darn tootin. worries me more than the earthquakes, and they worry me quite a lot.

[Colonel Voss]

Japanese police can detain you for one month without a lawyer for questioning and have lots of recourse to get you to confess. Once you confess, they go forward and prosecute you or hold you until you confess to other things as well. Yeah, something not right with this picture.

[job]

This guy was probably wrongly accused and tried the 1st and 2nd time.

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/201 ... 1000c.html

I love Japan, but I have to point out that part of this probably has to do with the accused being Nepalese. Poor guy's situation ( I don't think he's guilty of this crime.) is probably stuck in the long litigation system of the Japanese judicial system.


Anyway, shame about the looting in the UK. I hope your friends and family are okay, but it does seem that some of the media is trying to paint riots as just hoodlums on a rampage, rather then take any serious consideration of some social grievances in British society. Well, I won't comment on your country itself, though.

[Spevna]

It really is a combination of factors I reckon.

1. We live in a society where we "want". Most people however don't engage in violence to get what they want. I am sure the 99.9% of us are guilty of downloading stuff of the internet but that is as "risky" a thing as people are willing to do. The real question is why are people prepared to go to these lengths to do/get what they want?

2. Self entitlement. People feel they "deserve" everything they "want". This comes in several forms. "I'm poor. I deserve it!", "I work hard but get nowhere. I deserve it!", " I'm (insert label of choice here). I deserve it!" - The problem with this logic is that most people don't deserve even half what they think they do.

3. Lack of true parental guidance. None of us would've gone out and done stuff like this because our parents taught us better, our parents scared us, and we worried about disappointing them.

4. No fear of repercussions. Most of the kids know that they will get nothing more than a token slap on the wrist. If there was a real and serious punishment for them perhaps they would think twice about doing it. Offenders, young ones especially, should be rehabilitated and returned to society as productive members. If they refuse to change and intentionally continue to be non productive and destructive member s of society they should be denied the right to live in that society.

5. Lack of options in life. If people feel they have nothing to hope for/aim for/achieve then they take what they can get, when they can get it. This, coupled with point 4 make for a terrible combination.

6. No concept of what it really means to struggle in life. I guarantee that of you shipped any of the rioters out to Gaza, the DRC, or North Korea and let them experience real hardship, they would come back quite changed.

[me_in_japan]

I agree 100% with what Spev just said.

it does seem that some of the media is trying to paint riots as just hoodlums on a rampage, rather then take any serious consideration of some social grievances in British society. Well, I won't comment on your country itself, though.

thank you for the respectful position

I, however, am British, and can complain as much as I like without fear of being called a brit-hater

Britain is a genuinely great country at times. I honestly believe it ranks as one of the most beautiful countries in the world. People are friendly, and it is incredibly multicultural (which I count as a very good thing), it has a long, long history of technological innovation and contribution to world culture, and (aheheh) its where Warhammer comes from.

But, speaking personally, I think brits (perhaps this should say "scots" as I cant speak for the other 3 nations from personal experience) have lost what it means to be "British". I think there is no longer any sense of community, or sense of being part of a country. As Spev said, people have become increasingly focused on what they want, not what they can give. This leads to the problems Spev mentioned, but moreover, when one disregards what one can give, of course that leads to a sense of uselessness/disconnection.

My wife was telling me something interesting about Japan. Apparently, in elementary school and JHS, kids are taken on several trips to factories, supermarkets, offices, whatever, and taught about what people do to help them live. They go to farms and are shown where their food comes from, and who grows it for them. They are taken to factories to see who packs up the food on the supermarket shelves, and so on. All of this instills a sense of community and mutual dependance.

Conversely, I never, ever had even a single social studies class at school. Not one. Never went on any visits to farms, neither.

For Britain to change, I reckon 2 things have to happen.

1) Punishments for crimes have to actually be a disincentive. The first time, not the second time.
2) Kids have to be actively taught how to have a sense of community. This means school lessons on it, as well as educational trips and so on.

Those of you from other parts of the UK, what do you think? Is it just us scots who are lacking in community spirit?

[Seb]

It is terrible to hear what is happening in England and hope that everyone's families are doing fine.
I have been following the news from Swedish sources and what sprung to my mind reading all this was another article related to parenting in Britain that I read earlier this week.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... sure-.html

The Swedish article was new so I was suprised to read that this one is quite old.

Anyway I am not saying that this is a problem in Britain but many European countries.. It doesn't really create the best environments for kids to grow up in and many socal studies point to that growing up lacking either the a father or a mother makes it easier to get into the wrong groups, well don't really need any studies to figure that out.

And finish off with a quote:

It's not fair. I pay £5 a month towards the kids, which is deducted from my benefits at source. (Taxpayer's money) It's taken off automatically and I never see it. I pay my way.'

[Primarch]

Its not just the Scots.
Looking at the news from the UK, it seems that a lot of the immigrant communities particularly the Turkish and the Sikhs have pulled together to defend their homes/shops/temples. Meanwhile the 'natives' have buried their heads in the sand or run off. Mind you, I dont think that Debenhams or Tesco pay enough to the housewives who work there to get them to stand up to looters.

For all the claims of austerity cuts, most of them haven't actually come into effect yet. On top of which, the areas hit hardest by the riots have been the sites of heavy investment by the local councils recently. The original protests were over the shooting of a black man by a bunch of cops. The guy shot was a known cocaine dealer and was carrying a gun, though the police did shoot first. Of course a proper investigation hasnt happened due to recent events. A lot of the locals got together to protest and from there a riot broke out. Once it started, people started to use twitter to tell their mates to get down there to help them beat up cops and rob stores.

Over the past few years it has become more and more apparant that the middle class are actually poorer than the working class. For example. If both parents work, they can generally afford a house and 1 kid if they budget carefully. If neither parent works, they get a house for free and some money to live on. If they then have more kids, they get more money. The middle class kid is brought up believing that hard work is a good thing and that they should contribute to society. The 4 kids born to the unemployed parents are brought up to believe that they should be paid to do nothing, though if they want to cheat the system (work but dont declare it) or just commit crimes then they can get more money. So immeadiately you can see that the problem is just going to grow. Add in the fact that the people who are unemployed are also those more likely to have children at a younger age (to get the extra money quicker) and the problem grows even faster. Dont believe me? The UK's youngest GRANDfather on record was 29 years old. His daughter who had the baby was 14. Said 29 year old was unemployed and had been so all his life. I am in my 30s and I am just now considering having kids, so thats 2 generations in the space of 1 for me.

In terms of social grievances, I can honestly say that compared to a LOT of countries in the world, people are better off in the UK. Free health care, money and houses for nothing, free schools. We have people coming from all over the world to sponge off the UK welfare system. The current record stands at 4 hours between landing at the airport and arriving at the benefits office to claim. The UK social welfare system is one of the best in the world and we are incredibly lax at enforcing any policy to curb people abusing the system. The people with social grievances are those who are paying for the system. If there were a real reason for the riots, if people were doing it for a cause, (e.g. like in Egypt recently), I would be behind them 100%.

Combine all this with a justice system that does very little to punish people and an understaffed police force and its suprising that this hasn't happened sooner. In my home town, my parent's friend and his son were hospitalised after being robbed. 3 kids decided that they wanted the 5 pounds (1000 yen) pizza they had just collected from the local take-away and mugged them for it.

Its not the same country I grew up in.