Can we fix this game with a few house rules...

Discuss your games in the Underhive here.
User avatar
Primarch
Evil Overlord
Posts: 11392
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:33 am
Location: Nagoya
Contact:

Re: Can we fix this game with a few house rules...

Post by Primarch » Mon May 24, 2010 7:31 am

How about the missions where one player assembles a firing squad and the other player puts a couple of his gang up against the wall with a blindfold.

Yes there ARE missions like that.
Painted Minis in 2014: 510, in 2015: 300, in 2016 :369, in 2019: 417, in 2020: 450

User avatar
Admiral-Badruck
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 4511
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:22 pm
Location: Mekk Town AKA OGAKI

Re: Can we fix this game with a few house rules...

Post by Admiral-Badruck » Mon May 24, 2010 3:51 pm

Good question placed by Prime...

What to do about the Missions the bone a gang because of the scenario??? I have an answer but I would like to hear what Voss and Spev have to say about it... M-I-J is not posting on this and he would sure have an answer for this as well...
"i agree with badruck" -...
MIJ
Consider me a member of the "we love badruck" fan-club.
MIJ

User avatar
Spevna
Moderator
Posts: 3370
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 7:51 am
Location: Yokkaichi city, Japan

Re: Can we fix this game with a few house rules...

Post by Spevna » Mon May 24, 2010 10:36 pm

Well, having been on the recieving end of one of those I can tell you it's not fun. I got lumbered with the ambush scenario where I had my leader and two guys start the game surrounded and out-gunned. While I understand that not all games and situations are balanced it is not fun to spend a game getting the snot kicked out of you just so your opponent can get extra creds.

I do have a solution though. Don't play. If someone gets the choice of mission and chooses that, simply tell them that you don't want to play as you don't think you will enjoy it. If they are adamant about playing that scenario, tell them they need to find someone else to play against.

I have no problem losing. I have no problem losing badly. I DO have a problem with playing games where I know from the very start I'm going to be used as a 28mm punchbag for somebody's gang and I don't have a fighting chance. If I know I am not going to enjoy a game, why waste a couple of hours doing it?

if there is some kind of chance element that can potential screw players, it should potentially screw both.
If you start a (balanced) scenario and then you have bad rolls, bad luck, or just get plain outplayed....be a man and suck it up. It's not like you didn't have a fighting chance from the start?
Stuff painted in 2014 56
Stuff painted in 2015 118
Stuff painted in 2016 207
Stuff painted in 2017 0

User avatar
Primarch
Evil Overlord
Posts: 11392
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:33 am
Location: Nagoya
Contact:

Re: Can we fix this game with a few house rules...

Post by Primarch » Mon May 24, 2010 11:56 pm

I'm with Spevna on this. I have no problem with losing a game. I wont be happy about it, but I can accept that you win some and you lose some. Having played 1 game of Necro where I didnt actually pick up a dice for the entire game, I can honestly say it put me off the game. The sad part is, the opponent I played was Eric who is a really really nice guy to play against.
The games of Necro I have enjoyed playing have all been balanced scenarios (like the basic mission) against people who didn't make use of the auto-bottle rule just because their sniper took a hit or they wanted some easy xp.
I think the problem areas are the following:
1)Scenarios - Some just screw one player to a ridiculous degree.
2)Skill Charts - Techno vs. Muscle for example
3)Flamers (particularly hand flamers) - No drawbacks, sure they may run out of ammo fast, but 1 shot can bottle a team.
4)The auto-bottle rule - 3 times I have had (different) opponents quit in the opening turns of the game and net 50xp from me, whilst I got 10 xp for winning.

My fixes would be as follows
1) Dont play them, ever.
2) Use the rules Eric found on the net. They seem more balanced.
3) Still thinking
4) No underdog xp if you auto-bottle. Xp is based on gangers present during the game. (I frequently had 4 or 5 gangers in the game, but gave away loads of xp because I had 16 gangers in my gang. I got no benefit from having them, but my opponent got xp for beating them all).
Painted Minis in 2014: 510, in 2015: 300, in 2016 :369, in 2019: 417, in 2020: 450

User avatar
Admiral-Badruck
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 4511
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:22 pm
Location: Mekk Town AKA OGAKI

Re: Can we fix this game with a few house rules...

Post by Admiral-Badruck » Tue May 25, 2010 12:38 pm

good work guys Spvena has a the right idea well kind of.... and I think Prime. has some fair gripes as well as Ideas... let me take a stab at this one...

I know that it sucks to get ransacked in a game but the point of these missions is to do just that ransack your gang and make your gang life a little harder... I can totally understand why folks would not like to play it... but here is the real kicker... I think these missions are more narrative and for the gamer who is looking at the game from a story point of few... they should not be abused by the power gamers and those that are just trying to be jerks... if my gang shot you in the back after agreeing to help you then there should be a way for your gang to get some pay back.. like wise if a gang owes your gang money and is not willing to pay then they may have to get raided... and if someone raids you well you have every right to raid them...

Necromunda is very much an RPG and should be played as such. I think the best way around the "Scenarios from Hell" dilemma is to have a HM(HIve master) someone that runs the story line and makes things a lot more fun for everyone..

There are a lot of RPGers on the forum theses days.. I wonder if we could get one of them to run the game for us.. I would sure be Jazzed to see that.
"i agree with badruck" -...
MIJ
Consider me a member of the "we love badruck" fan-club.
MIJ

User avatar
ennui
Veteran
Posts: 487
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 4:18 am
Location: nagoya
Contact:

Re: Can we fix this game with a few house rules...

Post by ennui » Tue May 25, 2010 12:52 pm

I think that there are a lot of RPG aspects to Necromunda, but somehow I feel like it's a stretch to call it an RPG. Especially when you roll a dice to see what the next scenario is going to be. I think keeping those unfair fights out of the random charts is a good idea; if you and your opponent decide its a good idea for whatever RP reason, I think that'd be great. I know what Stu means about being messed up by Eric in that game, and Eric is probably the last guy I'd ever imagine power gaming and/or being a jerk.

I think no underdog XP on an auto-bottle test might work, but I'm sort of afraid that my weaker gang might end up being completely wiped on making a successful test and then continuing to fight it out until the obviously stronger team steamrolls me. But then I guess that's where I'd be forced to weigh the pros (most of my guys living) and the cons (not much experience growth) of auto-bottling. I think it'd be a good idea.
...

User avatar
Primarch
Evil Overlord
Posts: 11392
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:33 am
Location: Nagoya
Contact:

Re: Can we fix this game with a few house rules...

Post by Primarch » Tue May 25, 2010 12:59 pm

15 minutes setting up the board
5 minutes selecting the mission and gang members
2 minutes of taking my gang off the board
1 minute to tell my opponent he just got 50 xp
THEN I pick up a dice.

Yeah, even as someone who plays rpg's every weekend that sucks.

....Sorry, didnt mean to sound so negative.

I like the game, and I will play the basic gang fight mission as it is pretty good. I just dont think that having your gang pummelled because they are GOOD at what they do is a good example of narrative play. Narrative play should be equally fun for all concerned. RPGs are not player vs player, they are player vs bad guys. Eric's Halloween game with the zombie horde was awesome fun.
Painted Minis in 2014: 510, in 2015: 300, in 2016 :369, in 2019: 417, in 2020: 450

User avatar
Admiral-Badruck
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 4511
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:22 pm
Location: Mekk Town AKA OGAKI

Re: Can we fix this game with a few house rules...

Post by Admiral-Badruck » Tue May 25, 2010 1:30 pm

ennui wrote:I think that there are a lot of RPG aspects to Necromunda, but somehow I feel like it's a stretch to call it an RPG. Especially when you roll a dice to see what the next scenario is going to be. I think keeping those unfair fights out of the random charts is a good idea; if you and your opponent decide its a good idea for whatever RP reason, I think that'd be great. I know what Stu means about being messed up by Eric in that game, and Eric is probably the last guy I'd ever imagine power gaming and/or being a jerk.

I think no underdog XP on an auto-bottle test might work, but I'm sort of afraid that my weaker gang might end up being completely wiped on making a successful test and then continuing to fight it out until the obviously stronger team steamrolls me. But then I guess that's where I'd be forced to weigh the pros (most of my guys living) and the cons (not much experience growth) of auto-bottling. I think it'd be a good idea.
I can see what you mean Eric is not a power gamer at all... again that is where I think Spevna has the right idea.. I mean it would be lame as hell to get rocked and waist your time in a game that you were looking forward to all month. just because you rolled poorly... but again I say if some one Raids you the you should get an automatic chance to pay them back with a raid of your own... that would fix this more than anything...
"i agree with badruck" -...
MIJ
Consider me a member of the "we love badruck" fan-club.
MIJ

User avatar
Primarch
Evil Overlord
Posts: 11392
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:33 am
Location: Nagoya
Contact:

Re: Can we fix this game with a few house rules...

Post by Primarch » Tue May 25, 2010 1:41 pm

Admiral-Badruck wrote: I can see what you mean Eric is not a power gamer at all... again that is where I think Spevna has the right idea.. I mean it would be lame as hell to get rocked and waist your time in a game that you were looking forward to all month. just because you rolled poorly... but again I say if some one Raids you the you should get an automatic chance to pay them back with a raid of your own... that would fix this more than anything...
So I play a sucky game against you and then you get to play a sucky game against me... Thats gonna kill the player base fast. Better to rework or ignore those scenarios. Raid and games like that need a total overhaul to be fun and interesting for both players, which is what is needed.
Painted Minis in 2014: 510, in 2015: 300, in 2016 :369, in 2019: 417, in 2020: 450

User avatar
Admiral-Badruck
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 4511
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:22 pm
Location: Mekk Town AKA OGAKI

Re: Can we fix this game with a few house rules...

Post by Admiral-Badruck » Tue May 25, 2010 1:47 pm

I can deal with that.. you have a good point about 2 sucky games... and overhaul to the scenario looks like the only thing left for us...Who is up for that...
"i agree with badruck" -...
MIJ
Consider me a member of the "we love badruck" fan-club.
MIJ

Post Reply

Return to “Necromunda”