Konrad and MIJ's big boring dual-wield thread

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Konrad
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Konrad and MIJ's big boring dual-wield thread

Post by Konrad » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:27 am

I thought I'd start a new thread here in the Mordheim forum before me and MIJ totally hijack the Mordheim game day in Tsu thread with long boring rules debate.
For the real dual/wield/armor debate check out....
http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.c ... -t2735.htm
And back to MIJ, I think the issue is that Beastmen are a pretty one dimensional Warband, not that the -1 to hit modifier for dual wielding would hurt them so much. It would affect everyone. If you are worried about armor, an 5gc axe will still nulify 20gc worth of armour. If the -1 to hit bothers you, Halberds are a viable option.
I bet for the 25-30 (?)gc (sorry, rule book not in front of me) that a guy might spend on Lt armour and a shield, I bet you can get an Ungor with a club. And for the money, the best armour in my opinon is still a Henchman to take the hit for your Hero.
Don't give up on the Beasts! Your Warband is so nicely painted. You just need more Ungor. Hordes and hordes of club swinging savages.

MIJ wrote
*edit* re-reading all the variant rules, it seems the authors are driving for one main point: everyone should take armour. no-one should take two hand weapons. I know that under the current ruleset the opposite is true, but these rules seem like a knee-jerk overreaction. We'll just end up with all warbands being armed with 1 hand weapon, shield, and light/heavy armour, depending upon finances. To my mind, this would be very, very unfluffy for beastmen. If there were any incentive at all to take an extra hand weapon over a shield, id be less fussed, but there seems to be no incentive at all. the extra attack is not an improvement on hitting on a 4+ - statistically theres very little difference, and with the single 4+ hit you can carry a shield, too.

I didn't get that at all. I think the point is to make some variety in warbands and make other options besides mace/sword weapon combinations viable.
I am not a math guy, but my gamer's instinct tells me that 2 dice needing a 5+ will still get you more hits than 1 die needing a 4+ over the long haul. I don't see the shield/single hand weapon combo being any better. If you want to play offensively, take 2 hand weapons for the extra chance to hit, if you want to play defensively, take a shield for the chance to block one of those hits.
One of the guys on the Tom's boring forum wrote about the effects of using one of the options (A,B,C) Iforget which) in his campaign. He said that most Warbands still dual-weld at first. Once the warriors got some experience, (multiple attacks, higher WS) you would see some shield/hand wpn combos as a tougher fighter does not need the extra attack die as much and a more valuable fighter is worth playing a bit more defensively with. Most folks did not buy armor, but did keep it if they managed to find some during exploration.
I'm going to start a Necromunda campaign in the fall, houseruling in a lot of the Anthony Case rules. I was thinking that if there with the big Mordheim bash going down in Tsu, it might be a good time to talk about houserules for Mordheim. Maybe someone want's to take charge and be the "House" so to speak.
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Re: Konrad and MIJ's big boring dual-wield thread

Post by me_in_japan » Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:54 am

I think if everyone is starting from square 1, id be happy enough startin a new band along with them under rules A/B/C and seeing how things turned out. I'm not that keen to remodel my beasties, and I cant be bothered painting up new ones, so I'd need pretty strong reasons to to change from the dual wield. But anyhoo, I dont mind restarting if everyone else is. At least that way if I end up with 2 hand weapons i cant blame nobody but myself. Id also save myself the bother of saving carefully for a minotaur. Man are those guys crappola...

a question: centigors are listed as being able to take weapons from the "Gor weapons" list. There is no Gor weapons list. There is a beastman list, and an Ungor list. Within the warband there are Bestigor, Gor, and Ungor. Bestigor and Gor draw from the Beastman weapons list. Ungor, of course, draw from the Ungor list. Which list does the Centigor draw from? Neither list, btw, contains bucklers, which is what every single centigor is holding in his left hand. The right hand contains a spear, which is available on the Ungor list but not the Beastman list. What say you?

I'm also not against the idea of a necro campaign, as the case rules seem pretty ok.

-d

btw, the odds of rolling at least one 5+ out of 2 D6 are (1/3 + ((2/3)x(1/3) = 55%, so theyre marginally higher than the odds of a 4+ on a single dice, but not that much. One in twenty, in fact. Of course, the two 5+ dice have the potential to both come up hits (11%, in fact, if my math isnt failing me), which may or may not sway you to believe them to be significantly better. The shield saving your ass when he hits you back is an entirely different set of sums, which i will leave to your imagination to come up with :P
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Re: Konrad and MIJ's big boring dual-wield thread

Post by Primarch » Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:58 am

Math not withstanding (cos we play the game for fun round here, not to win at all costs), a group of two weapon wielding beastmen is a scary prospect to face across the table. Thats why I have two weapon wielding, Mohawk wearing, tattooed nutjobs to throw at them. That and bucketfuls of lead.
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Re: Konrad and MIJ's big boring dual-wield thread

Post by Admiral-Badruck » Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:13 pm

yes guys way to much info... as I guy that likes the game how it is I cant for the life of me see what is that important to write that much about.. but I guess I am only an ork and not smart enough to make heads or tales out of it...
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Re: Konrad and MIJ's big boring dual-wield thread

Post by me_in_japan » Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:49 pm

Me and Konrad was just having a chat. just cos we use a lot of words to do so doesnt mean we take it any more seriously that you do.

that said
a group of two weapon wielding beastmen is a scary prospect to face across the table.
not under the potentially-new-rules, its not...
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Re: Konrad and MIJ's big boring dual-wield thread

Post by Primarch » Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:11 pm

But it LOOKS scary. You've got to learn to play the psychological game too.
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Re: Konrad and MIJ's big boring dual-wield thread

Post by me_in_japan » Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:15 am

You've got to learn to play the psychological game too.
Ha! do not even get me started on that one...
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Re: Konrad and MIJ's big boring dual-wield thread

Post by Admiral-Badruck » Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:00 pm

please do not get him started on that one... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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