Nurgle Conversion

[me_in_japan]

Why is it "their call" if I can use my own models?

it largely depends on if youre being a prat or not. If the minis you put down look like what theyre supposed to, then everyone can have a nice game of 40k (or whatever). If they look like a collection of random stuff then your opponent is going to spend the whole game asking you what things are, and forgetting that the swamp beast over there is actually a bloodthirster, while the marines over there actually do have jump packs, or whatever. One or two wee anomalies is generally considered fine and dandy, but proxying and scratch builds can make life difficult for your opponent and generally slow down the game. Whether a proxy/scratch "clearly represents" what it's intended to be is purely subjective. It's also not "normal". Anything outwith the norm necessitates a polite "is this ok?", in my opinion. Not cos its in the rules or anything, just cos its polite.

Once again, Id like to point out that I am firmly within the "We love scratch builds and proxies" camp. I'm just pointing out that we shouldnt take an opponent's consent for granted. Or, to put it another way; things which are fun for you (e.g. homemade models) are not always fun for your opponent.

[Spevna]

A polite explanation of what your army is goes without saying and is a necessity of proxying.

Is he doing me a favour? Should I be grateful for being allowed to use the minis and models of my choice? Not in the slightest.

You decide you don't like Rhinos so instead you scratchbuild a completely new tank. It is 4.6 inches long, and 3 inches wide, the dimensions of a rhino. Every squad of marines in your army has an identical troop carrier so their is no ambiguity. Why on earth would I need his permission to do this? Of course it is the players right to refuse a game but it in no way makes the scratchbuilder rude for attempting to do something different. It is neither polite nor impolite, it simply is what it is.

Im planning to do a Space marine army and Im going to proxy everything. The Land raider proxy will be the same length/width as the GW one, it will have side mounted weapons like the GW one, it will have a hull mounted gun like the GW one. I will put it on the board and explain to the person im playing what it is. There is no way Im going to ask his permission to use it.

The Space Marine proxies will have power armour. They will have guns that hold ammo clips. Anyone armed with a plasma gun will have a weapon with an obvious energy source. Do I expect to ask to be allowed to use them? Not at all.

I totally agree that a polite explanation and clearly modelled and painted models are a necessity. I just totally and completely disagree with the concept of needing permission to be able to use models of my own choice.

[Primarch]

I totally agree that a polite explanation and clearly modelled and painted models are a necessity. I just totally and completely disagree with the concept of needing permission to be able to use models of my own choice.

Quick caveat. By "you" I dont mean any particular individual, I'm just using it in a general sense as I know everyone on this forum is of a fair and decent mindset.

Actually, if you try playing in a GW store (unlikey, I know) they wont let you play unless your models are at least X% GW models. Back home, the only place I could play regularly was in a GW store so I never even tried kitbashing stuff.

Beyond that rather strict range of venues, I think the point Dave was trying to make was, dont proxy/scratch build randomly/out of scale. There have been players who put down a battlewagon that was bigger than an Imperial Superheavy and had a firing platform on top that was taller than any of the terrain. (Cant remember who it was exactly...)

If all your Rhinos are rhino sized and all your marines are marine sized and I can tell who is carrying what by looking at it, then who cares if you're using GW, Rackham, PP or even Lego. (actually, I would frown on players with lego marines).

You dont need your opponent's permission to put your models on the table no matter what they are, but if you put down something that just screams WTF!?! then you had best be prepared to watch your opponent remove his figures and go and find another opponent who hasn't built some obscene conversion.

That said, forgeworld do have something in the front of their books saying that you should ask your opponents permission before using those models as some of the rules are rather powerful, particularly flyers and super heavies.

[Admiral-Badruck]

GW Store that will be the day... I offered try and open one in Gifu but I was told that there would not be any more GW stores out side of Tokyo in Japan just stores that carry the GW line...

[Spevna]

I agree with everything you said there Prim. I don't think there is anything unreasonable about GW expecting people to use the models it produces in the store it pays rent for.

And, as you said, if something elicits responses of "WTF?" then you haven't done a good enough job of making it.

I know that me and m_i_j are on exactly the same wave length when it comes to scratchbuilding and modelling but I just think the idea of needing permission is nutty if you have a perfectly understandable and well made alternative. If a player walks away from a game because you have modelled something in a certain way for a strategic advantage then you are the one with the issues and the person walking is doing what I would do.

As for needing permission for using FW stuff, that I can see the point of in some cases. But if a bit of FW kit takes up a slot on the FOC and is made by GW then surely it must be kosher right?

@The Admiral - Consider yourself lucky they didn't give you a store to run.It would've left you hating the hobby.

[Primarch]

GW Store that will be the day... I offered try and open one in Gifu but I was told that there would not be any more GW stores out side of Tokyo in Japan just stores that carry the GW line...

Since they aren't a franchise they wouldnt have opened a store in Gifu no matter how keen you were to work in one. They would open stores in bigger cities first and (at least in the beginning) put one of their guys from Tokyo in charge. I can kind of see their point about Tokyo. About 1/3 of the population of the country lives in Tokyo and the surrounding prefectures. The next biggest place is Osaka and they have a partnership store there. If they do expand Nagoya, Hiroshima, Kobe, Kyoto or Sapporo are more likely than Gifu.

Spevna is right in one regard. Working in retail is a sure fire way to make you hate the product if you do it long enough. The guys at my local store back home quit after a few years in the job. They were constantly getting phone calls asking if they sold everything from Chess to World of Warcraft (they are called GAMES workshop after all). A lot of the time they were left to look after kids whilst the parents went shopping. Said kids would fill up all the demo games and tables so that people who actually knew how to play couldnt. The staff had quotas to meet with regards to selling and had to push new products down everyone's throats.

I think you're lucky GW said no.

[Primarch]

As for needing permission for using FW stuff, that I can see the point of in some cases. But if a bit of FW kit takes up a slot on the FOC and is made by GW then surely it must be kosher right?

Except that back in the day (pre-apocalypse) you could take super heavies as heavy support choices. Flyers inparticular can be quite nasty as they are bloody hard to hit and can zoom all over the board hitting the side/rear armour of vehicles. I think the permission thing was more "Dont be a douche and turn up with this stuff without warning your opponent"
Some of it was downright scary.

[Spevna]

Taking three baneblades as your heavy choices reeks of "beard". Cheesy beard at that.

[Admiral-Badruck]

I cant for the life of me understand why Flyers are that big of a problem you need a 6 to hit it I say bring on the fly boyz they never make there points back... Tau Drones that get close enough are bound to take them out... free Drone V 230 point flying Las Cannon... I welcome any one to bring as many as they want to any game against me... Super heavies are... not that hard core. most of the Ork Supper heavies are only armor 13... most other supper heavies cost as much as 100 ork Boyz I think 100 ork boyz or 600 points worth of Marines could well take down most of the Ork super heavies.. and one Blood Thirster at 270 points could take out a Baneblade with very little problem...

[me_in_japan]

Super heavies are... not that hard core.

hum. so, if i were to challenge you to a game of 40k in which we have, say, 2500 pts each, and I can take a super heavy and you cant, youd be up for that?