New shooting rules.

[Primarch]

In M_i_J's example Marine 4 cannot fire. He is out of range.
You check your weapon's range to see what guns you can SHOOT.
You check the best range/position in the unit to see what targets you can HIT.

[The Underdweller]

@underdweller - I think badruck had reposted Prim's argument on another forum, where someone disagreed with it. This disagreement post made up the bulk of badruck's last post here. He's cross forum question posting.

Thanks, glad to hear it!

[Admiral-Badruck]

@underdweller - I think badruck had reposted Prim's argument on another forum, where someone disagreed with it. This disagreement post made up the bulk of badruck's last post here. He's cross forum question posting.

Thanks, glad to hear it!

Yes that is what I am doing it would be better if all the people I played would just join the Nag-hammer forum but these guys are the Tokyo crowed and it seems like they think they know the rules better than Prime.

I say not a chance. It there is one thing I can be sure of it is that prime will investigate and cognately reason the best answers out of the rules. If you do not understand a rule you can ask me and most of the time I will be right but if I do not understand a rule then I ask prime because he gives the best rules answers bar none.

[Primarch]

@Badruck - You know the gamers in Tokyo?

And flattery will get you nowhere... but it doesn't hurt to try.

[ashmie]

Just for the record and not that it matters that much but I would say with 40k, (and this is for the previous edition), pretty much everyone I played from a different gaming group or sometimes from gamer to gamer had a different set of rules in their head they were working from. With or without FAQ's and new codex rules people were genuinely confused or had different interpretations. I would learn one set of rules and then this would not match with the way people in Kyoto/Nagoya and Osaka or Tsu played it. Even more so with the jump from a Japanese gaming groups understanding to an English speaking groups understandings. I would even go so far as to say each of those cities are/were playing it differently. Even Space Hulk rules were different. Which is crazy really as there is only one set of rules to work from. The best thing to do is to read them for yourself and be sure of what the rules mean. Then, perhaps only play in one gaming group or with a few people who have a similar understanding of the rules as you.
I wouldn't say one persons version of the rules is clearer than anothers but there are people in the gaming groups who know certain systems very well. Asch seems to have Warhammer down as does Jus. Prim did know every angle of previous 40k, I haven't played the new one but I suspect he knows that one as well. Mike and Jo on Flames of War. Black Powder is another interesting one. A very basic set of rules but again even the different people I've played have interpreted the rules differently each time. As for me, yeah if you have questions on Advanced Heroquest I'm your man.
That's what I plan to do with this new edition when I get round to playing it. I'll probably make a point of playing the same players so I don't have to keep relearning different interpretations.

[ashmie]

In summary would it be fair to say that you can only hit and wound what is in range? Unless it's a blast template or something.

[me_in_japan]

That largely depends on how one defines "hit" and "in range"

[ashmie]

If we come away from the FAQ's and confusions and use our common sense rule it works out doesn't it? Anyway perhaps it's better to have what the family call a 'sit down' with the models and work through it.

Is it the case now that you can only wound models you hit and only target models within range of the front guy in the unit? I need to have a read and get back to you. It sounds like they've taken a simple principle and made it a bit vague.

One thing I've noticed for rule books in general the words 'may' and 'or/and' 'except when' always turn the rules on their head. This is why I prefer rule systems that don't have contradictions and rule exceptions. Don't get me wrong I like crunchy rules as much as the next gamer but I like the rules to be set and preferably consistant. Playtested before release is a good way forward for games companies. Despite this I'm keen to give new 40k a play still.

[ashmie]

Are you guys measuring range from the front model or a random selected model in the unit? In Black Powder you have to measure all range from the Commander model. He must be in the centre of the unit.
Are you guys measuring range on each model in the unit or selecting a mini in the front?
I will read the rules on shooting , then the FAQ's and then read this thread.
I'll comment again next week.

[ashmie]

It is actually pretty simple.
If you were ever in range of any of the units guns, you are always in range for all shots fired, even if by the time the dice hit the table something changes.
If you were never in range, you are never in range.

I'll roll with this general principle for the time being. It makes the most sense and is easy to understand.
Cheers Prim.