Next FW book - BADAB WAR

[Primarch]

Hands up if you have a 3 Land Raider list! (not counting epic of course).

Assault transports should either be:
Expensive (e.g. land raiders and storm ravens)
or
Flimsy (trukks and raiders)

I really dont see this "codex creep," all the newer books are balanced, both internally and against each other. Older books do struggle to keep up admittedly, but despite Dave's constant moaning about it, I dont see any "broken" or overpowered books.
Each book brings with it a new range of challenges and combos to overcome. Each one changes the dynamic of the game and its up to the players to find a counter or develop a new tactic to win. If you want to play a game that never changes, play chess. Instead of whining about how something is broken, try and find a way to beat it. Man up, play the army as many times as it takes, and eventually you will win.
E.g. Badruck's Blood Angels cleaned house at TEWNN, but against different armies, he may well have been tabled in both games. His dreads rip through infantry, but only for as long as Melta remains the anti-tank weapon of choice. If he plays someone who brings lascannons or railguns to the table, his dreads will get smoked.

[Admiral-Badruck]

I see the Codex Creep as a challenge but some things are just getting a bit out of hand in the Tournament seen I think Prime is right (The Paper, Rock Chain, Sword is in full effect) But if Player A Plays Nids and Player B plays Eldar I think Player A will win about 70% of the time I do not see a way that. Eldar can't really handle Nids just like I do not see and Ork army fairing very well against The new Space wolves or Blood Angels Codex...

[Primarch]

Funnily, the one time my nids played the space pixies, they won. Maybe if we have a rematch, Dave will win it. We'll have to see.
As for Orks vs Wolves. I think a lot depends on who gets the charges in, how much pre assault shooting gets done, and generally the roll of the dice. Oh yeah, and if they bring Thunderwolves.

[me_in_japan]

blimey. Clearly not an eldar player. From here, them nids look pretty dang scary.

There are certain things in newer codexes that, when compared to older codexes do make me say "eeeeeeeh".

Fr example:

Njall, Mephiston - CC monsters who also happen to be really hard to kill. Oh yes, theyre also the two most powerful psykers in the game.
Storm Ravens, and that FW abomination - really fast, really shooty, assault transports. Is there anything these things cant do?

I think these highlight the problem with recent codexes. Rather than make players choose between shooty units, choppy units, fast transporting vehicles, tough vehicles, etc, they just make something that can do all of the above. Show me a unit that can multitask as well as any of the four units I just mentioned in any codex published more than 4 years ago. You'll be hard pressed to do so.

A final example of codex creep:

When the eldar codex came out, people said that Eldrad was far too powerful.

Compare with Beardy and Vamps, above...

As stu says, all armies can be beaten, but you should be able to beat them with a take-all-comers army, assuming youre a better player than your opponent. you should not have to play the army again, again, and again, tailoring your own force each time, just to beat it once.

Give me a week or so. I'll see if I can devise the brokenest army I can for BA. If people dont mind me borrowing their stuff, you are welcome to use my eldar to try and beat it.

[Primarch]

You're on.

The problem when using Meff and Nigel is that they clock in at 250 points. Nige only has 2 wounds and is T4 so you have to be careful how you use him. Meff is rock solid, but he cant join units and is vulnerable to being shot to pieces. So long as you have the bodies to soak the damage he will cause in combat, powerfists will smack him down.

The Stormraven is a good assault vehicle, but if you are using it to assault out of you arent shooting with it so much since it has to move fast to get the troops where they want to go. It comes with 4 missiles and 2 guns (a twin linked HBolter and twin linked ACannon). It can only shoot 2 of those when it moves. Its AV12, and though it is immune to the Melta rule, can be taken out with Las, Plas, Melta, Autocannon, Scatter Lasers, Shuricannons, railguns, powerfists, chainfists, thunderhammers, lances (bright and dark) and every other gun/weapon with S6 or better. MiJ of all people should know how vulnerable AV12 is without any magic stones. Every Stormraven taken is one less scoring assault squad or 10 less Death Company. It is good, but it isnt the god-like transport/tank you think it is.

Basically, a take all comers list should take things like this into account before declaring itself a take all comers list. Even then, some armies will always fare better in that regard than others. (Orks and IG do it very well).

[me_in_japan]

Coolio. OK dokey then - Prim, next time we play 40k, if you could do me the honour of taking control of my valiant pointy ears, I'll have a shotty with your vampiric pointy teeth. I take it youre reasonably familiar with what models I do and dont have, yeah? Any questions, lemme know. Likewise, for your BA, I'll do my best to not go too far from what models you actually have, but there may be some proxying involved (particularly when it comes to stormravens...)

[Admiral-Badruck]

I see the Codex Creep as a challenge but some things are just getting a bit out of hand in the Tournament seen I think Prime is right (The Paper, Rock Chain, Sword is in full effect) But if Player A Plays Nids and Player B plays Eldar I think Player A will win about 70% of the time I do not see a way that. Eldar can't really handle Nids just like I do not see and Ork army fairing very well against The new Space wolves or Blood Angels Codex...

what the hell are you guys talking about Bugeye should always crush Pannzy

[Primarch]

I see the Codex Creep as a challenge but some things are just getting a bit out of hand in the Tournament seen I think Prime is right (The Paper, Rock Chain, Sword is in full effect) But if Player A Plays Nids and Player B plays Eldar I think Player A will win about 70% of the time I do not see a way that. Eldar can't really handle Nids just like I do not see and Ork army fairing very well against The new Space wolves or Blood Angels Codex...

what the hell are you guys talking about Bugeye should always crush Pannzy

You edited that! It says so in the post.
Cheater!

[me_in_japan]

sooooooooooo busted.

I can smell burning - maybe that's cos somebody's PANTS ARE ON FIRE!!!

[Admiral-Badruck]

Doh!!!