Q's about Daemons and Chaos

[Primarch]

that is what I get for asking about some rules that do not make sense.

They're really clear and unambiguous.
BotBG - Does the power cause a wound yes=save, no=no save.
Kharn = ignores the effects of any psychic powers that hit him.

Next time I will just post a question on Dakka Dakka that what I will not have you guys all pretentious about an honest question.

Normally we wouldn't have cared, but it was mainly due to your earlier post in the thread (before I seperated the armylists and rules questions) saying "M_i_J and Prime dont know about Daemons. You should ask me (badruck)."
Rule of thumb, dont slag people off for not knowing stuff as well as you do or tell them that reading a codex is pointless and then go asking questions about it mate. The response will be far friendlier if you skip the 'slagging people off' part. You know I have no problem answering rules/list/fluff questions from anyone, even you. It's all a part of the hobby to me and I'm sure M_i_J is the same, thats one of the reasons for this site. Even the best players need some help and advice sometimes.

[Admiral-Badruck]

I know how the army works but sometimes even if you know what you are doing and if you have a few tricks you have found there are still rules that need to be checked in order to make your army work to the fullest.

@ Prime I know you like to give your 2 cents on every post that comes up and that is up to you, but I still think one can't give proper advice about and army unless they play it. One can always work out how the rules play buy reading the codex and the BRB, but if some one is going to spend money on units that someone says are good and play this way then they had better know what they are talking about.

This is the reason you do not see me giving advice about Eldar or IG two armies I have never played and have only played against a few times. It is also the reason I do not give any FB advice or advice for any game I am not currently playing.

I have my ideas about stuff but I am not sure what is good and what is not and If someone ask me about Eldar or IG I would direct them to the guys that play them namely MIJ and Prime respectively I sure would not go about telling them what units are good or even speculate on the pros and cons. But as advice goes I would say actual experience trumps theory every time. This is just how I see it does not mean I am right it is just how I see it...

[Seb]

While looking around for daemon prince builds I stumbled upon a forum where they discussed the options for daemon princes in the older codexes. I just wanted to have this confirmed by you guys.

In the last codex, don't know if it as daemons or CSM, the daemon prince could for example get options like a dreadaxe
ignores invulnerable save .. sweet!

is this right? If you know some other cool options that the daemon prince would get then please share.

Some awesome options, too bad they took away so much from the current codex.

[Primarch]

While looking around for daemon prince builds I stumbled upon a forum where they discussed the options for daemon princes in the older codexes. I just wanted to have this confirmed by you guys.

In the last codex, don't know if it as daemons or CSM, the daemon prince could for example get options like a dreadaxe
ignores invulnerable save .. sweet!

is this right? If you know some other cool options that the daemon prince would get then please share.

Some awesome options, too bad they took away so much from the current codex.

Actually, the daemon codex you have is the FIRST daemon codex. Before that book the daemons were units in Codex: Chaos Space Marines. Daemon Princes did get more options, but you couldnt run a pure Daemons army. They were only there for support. Basically everything in that old book had a LOT more options and they decided to tone things down a bit for the newer books.

[Seb]

I see..

Well it is great that the daemons got their own codex.The current codex released in 2008 is 4th ed. I presume?
Do you think they will be reeasing a new one soon? I know there are other armies in need of a codex update more desperately though..

[Primarch]

I see..

Well it is great that the daemons got their own codex.The current codex released in 2008 is 4th ed. I presume?
Do you think they will be reeasing a new one soon? I know there are other armies in need of a codex update more desperately though..

Daemons may be a 4th ed. book, but it was written for 5th edition. They're WAAAY down the back of the line.

[Seb]

okay, fair enough..
until then I'll just hold my thumbs and hope they will bring back the dreadaxe..
or some other cool options

[me_in_japan]

a quick two cents from a mono-power (i.e. Nurgle only) chaos marine player:

The current CSM codex is a frickin embarrasment. Chaos should be all about customisation and tailoring your army to your own personal tastes. You want standard, workaday dudes - play smurfs. the chaos book shoulda been full of options. You should be able to take Nurgle daemons in your Nurgle CSM army. Fluff wise its a no-brainer, and historically youve always been able to. You should be able to build a warband consisting entirely of bikers. You should be able to build a warband consisting entirely of jump infantry. You should, if you so wish, be able to build a warband consisting of units who all have the mark of a single chaos power and still be able to win occasionally. You should get bonuses for having your units in multiples of your chaos god's sacred number. You should be able to have CSM and IG typey heretic scum in the same army. Heck you should be able to have CSM, IG heretic scum, lesser daemons and greater daemons in the same army.

All of this is 100% in keeping with the background for chaos in 40k.

None of it can be done with the current codex.

bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

ok, rant over. I'll go back to being an eldar player for the time being. Not that they arent in need of a new codex, too (although I'll concede, the eldar codex has aged reasonably well. Most things are heinously over-pointed, but that was true when it was released, too.)

[Primarch]

Sigh, 'twas only a matter of time wasn't it? Why cant my marines have an all terminator army riding Thunderwolves bearing shoulder mounted Thunderfire cannons with Vows that give them preferred enemy as they assault out of Storm Raven gunships?
All bike and All jump armies? Well, I guess DA/SM can do the first (but then you're only getting 2 or 3 options for the entire army) and BA the second (reasonably well, but that has always been their thing), but neither of those armies get access to Chaos wargear such as Defilers, possessed tanks, cult troops or daemons (hey look you do get them) or other chaos-y stuff. If you included everything that you wanted in the current dex it would more than double in size since you'd be adding a metric tonne more pages for the army list and the fluff/rules for each. Just because you cant take Plague Bearers in your marine army doesnt mean you cant use Plague Bearer models for your summoned daemons.
It would seem from the sound of things that you dont want Codex CSM, you want Codex: Death Guard or Codex: Nurgle. Maybe we'll get them in the future, who knows. They'd certainly be cool to have. However, in the meantime you'll have to get by with the current C:CSM (heck, you never even used the old one), which I still say is a good book even if you cant run an army of any possible configuration you can imagine with it.

[me_in_japan]

Sigh, 'twas only a matter of time wasn't it?

yup

Why cant my marines have an all terminator army riding Thunderwolves bearing shoulder mounted Thunderfire cannons with Vows that give them preferred enemy as they assault out of Storm Raven gunships?

thats rather missing the point (probably deliberately, knowing you. You aint daft...) If the fluff said there were such a chapter then Id say by all means go for it. If youre just doing it to win, then thats just boring. The reason I want customisation in the chaos codex is not so I can win. its because in its current form the codex does not allow players to play fluffy chaos armies. The chaos fluff says that chaos, by its nature, is incredibly varied. The current codex is inherently not so.

...access to Chaos wargear such as Defilers, possessed tanks, cult troops or daemons

nope. not if you want to play mono-nurgle. no defilers (cant take MoN), no cult troops (which CSM codex are you reading? Aint no cultists in thar, chief...) and as for daemons, if I wanted quick assault multiple attack daemons Id play slaanesh. Possessed tanks, I'll grant you. We get those. Would rather have thunderwolves, tho (or plague toads! yay!)

It seems that so far as the current CSM codex is concerned, life would be a lot better if there were no chaos gods at all, and CSM were just Evil Space Marines wiv Spikey Bitz (oh wait, they took those away too...)

and youre right, I never used the last edition CSM codex. Previous to my current warband (and it is a warband, btw - The Brethren of the Maggotborn, if you must know. Followers of The Dweller in Darkness, He of the Many Legs and Scritchy-Scratchy Noises in the Night. Him.) Anyway, previous to my current warband, last time I played chaos, I had a fantasy nurgle warband with a champion who rode a cold one with a move of 72 inches. Ya gotta love those old Realm Of Chaos books. You can imagine how cramped I felt working within the confines of the current CSM codex.

old rules: meh, do what ya like. its chaos. Have fun, y'know?
current rules: All chaos players must play black legion. you can paint em a different colour if you like, but you aint fooling anyone. theyre black legion, really.