New FAQs

[Primarch]

Well, I totally disagree with the last two lines of your post, but I wont bother arguing it with you since you obviously have your mind made up. Suffice to say, I still see CSM as being a viable army in their current incarnation.

[job]

You can't say my mind is quiet intractable. I've already agreed to Badruck's opinion is several points. Have you yourself considered cross-referencing the points and rules of the codexes?

[Tenorikuma]

Well, I totally disagree with the last two lines of your post, but I wont bother arguing it with you since you obviously have your mind made up. Suffice to say, I still see CSM as being a viable army in their current incarnation.

I think the battlefield is where this ought to be settled.

[Primarch]

You can't say my mind is quiet intractable. I've already agreed to Badruck's opinion is several points. Have you yourself considered cross-referencing the points and rules of the codexes?

Yes, not only that, I have played with and against all three of the armies you are talking about.

On the other hand, everything in the book is outclassed by the BAs and SWs. Or rather they don't balance all to well against the latest generation of codexes which seem to push point costs down and options up.

Which of Badruck's points was this agreeing with, because I will disagree with him too in that case?

So, lets take a look at the icons which started this whole debacle.

First off a quick comparison to the Imperial equivalant, the Teleport Homer.
Rules - Allows terminators (and only terminators) to deep strike without scattering within 6"
Points - 15
Who can take it - Tactical squad sergeants only. But not space wolves. They cant use it at all.

Now lets look at the Icons
Rules - Allows terminators (and oblits which are effectively a type of terminator) to deep strike without scattering within 6"
- Also allows daemons to deepstrike into play
- Also gives rerolls on LD checks.
Points - 5/10 (You can pay more to get extra special rules)
Who can take it - Terminators, Chosen, Possessed, Chaos Marines, Plague Marines, Noise Marines, Beserkers, Thousand Sons, Bikers, Raptors, Havocs.

So basically it has the exact same rules as every imperial choice (streamlining?), plus gives extra benefits, is cheaper and more widely available.

I think the battlefield is where this ought to be settled.

If only more than one of us played any of the 3 armies being discussed currently...

But if that is what it takes, I will happily loan Job my Blood Angels or my Space Wolves and I will take my CSM.

I currently have plans for 1 game at the Feb Joshin event, but I have plenty of time for 40k.

#edit# And I will bring CSM to this months Joshin event as well.

[me_in_japan]

You can't say my mind is quiet intractable. I've already agreed to Badruck's opinion is several points. Have you yourself considered cross-referencing the points and rules of the codexes?

Yes, not only that, I have played with and against all three of the armies you are talking about.

Yeah. Prim was the wrong person to ask that question to. There's a reason most of us just holler "stuuuu" when we have a rules question...

As for people not playing the armies under discussion, those of us with 3000 or so points of smelly CSM seem to have been forgotten. Oh woe, woe is us. Poor ol nurglies wailywailywaily

Just to weigh in on the discussion, in terms of playability a basic CSM army as the codex currently stands is quite powerful. My CSM suffer from being mono nurgle, which gimps them terribly, but that's entirely self inflicted. I have plenty of issues with the CSM codex so far as its ability to create a fluffy yet playable mono-power list is concerned, but if you go black legion (as the designer seems to have been pushing for) its a perfectly powerful codex.

In fact, the writer of the CSM codex is quoted as saying he had tried to write as streamlined a codex as possible, reducing unique special rules and using as many basic USR as possible. The result? A dull, yet serviceable book.

Is that really what you want 40k to turn into?

[job]

f only more than one of us played any of the 3 armies being discussed currently...

But if that is what it takes, I will happily loan Job my Blood Angels or my Space Wolves and I will take my CSM.

I currently have plans for 1 game at the Feb Joshin event, but I have plenty of time for 40k.

#edit# And I will bring CSM to this months Joshin event as well.

Okay, good point about the icon-teleport homer comparison. It would be best to bring those two into similarity for ease of rules.

Still I think you can run SWs and BAs to a competitive advantage to the SM and CSM codexes.

I should point out that I have no problem with the SM codex (it might be the best written codex in my opinion). Also a second thing that strikes me is that you are required to purchase icons or personal icons to use demons. For safety you are going to need a few so it adds to the cost of using lesser demons.

As for the challenge, I accept. I would love an opportunity to play SWs someday. I one time contemplated collecting them prior to 5th ed. codex and I even incorporated a few models into my Black Legion. On the same note, I will not touch BAs as I despise them as a Legionaire!

ust to weigh in on the discussion, in terms of playability a basic CSM army as the codex currently stands is quite powerful. My CSM suffer from being mono nurgle, which gimps them terribly, but that's entirely self inflicted. I have plenty of issues with the CSM codex so far as its ability to create a fluffy yet playable mono-power list is concerned, but if you go black legion (as the designer seems to have been pushing for) its a perfectly powerful codex.

I agree overall with your remarks, but don't you really wish that the plague marine selection had more options then pf, pw, pg, mg, and flamer?

[Primarch]

You are on. I will compile a list of the Space Wolf models I own and send it to you.