Building the Perfect Chaos Marine Army

[Primarch]

Dirt cheap (relatively speaking) terminators with power weapons and twin linked guns that can have an extra point of Initiative, combi meltas and other cool bits. YES PLEASE.

If the chaos termies points/stats/options were in the marine dex you'd see me taking them more often, rather than just in big games.

[Admiral-Badruck]

do not wolf guard cost 33 points about the same.. and can't they be troops?

[Primarch]

Thats why I have Wolf Guard Terminators.
They can be troops if you take Logan, but I dont have the model. Plus I like Ragnar's choppy death or Njal's random power o'doom too much.

[Admiral-Badruck]

Back to the topic of CSM units Fast attack did they just not have time to make any good units...

[Primarch]

Back to the topic of CSM units Fast attack did they just not have time to make any good units...

Did you read the book before making all these statements? Have you actually considered what you are saying before you say it? Why not post what you think are the good and bad points and let us discuss them? I have gone through the dex and I can find no terrible choices anywhere in it. Possessed are a little too random perhaps, but S5, 2attacks, 5+ invulnerable save and potentially feel no pain or power weapons makes them reasonable as a unit, if a little expensive.

Chaos Bikers and Raptors are essentially the same as their Codex:Space Marine equivialants, just a touch more expensive points wise. This does not mean they are bad. CSM bikers still get the pistol/CCweapon combo which Space Marine bikers dont. Both bikers and raptors have the option of taking icons which can boost their stats (slaanesh, nurgle and khorne are all good choices).
They have to pay extra for their champion, but since they all get the extra weapons and have a base Ld of 9, they are already as good as the sergeant in the loyalist book. Flamers are cheaper for raptors and they can have melta guns and plasma guns which their loyalist buddies can't (though blood angels just got that).
As a choice for fast moving daemon portals they are good, they can fulfill their roles of fast moving close fire support (bikers) and fast assault (raptors) very well and be kitted out with the gear they need to get the job done.
Chaos Spawn are reasonable as meat shields and obviously Dungeon Lord likes them.

[me_in_japan]

CSM fast attack are pretty good, i reckon.

Raptors with melta guns are ace tank hunters (the 12" move on them suddenly makes getting within 6" for 2D6 fun seem much more doable.)

daemon portaling is another handy use for both raptors and bikers. You can build a really, really frickin fast CSM army if you try. (e.g. 2 units of raptors, a unit of bikers, and two units of daemons, all of whom will be in your face by turn 2.) throw in some teleporty oblits and termis and your opponent will be all a-flap, I'm sure.

Possessed are a little too random perhaps, but S5, 2attacks, 5+ invulnerable save and potentially feel no pain or power weapons makes them reasonable as a unit, if a little expensive.

Random and expensive is not a good combination. If they roll a 6 they get power weapons, which my guys managed for both games Ive used them in. They did indeed do well, but if they had rolled "scout" then that woulda been poop. There are better elite units in the list. Chosen, dreads, even termis are a better choice than possessed. I only have em at all cos i wanted to do the conversions.

You mentioned marks a few times, but bear in mind that marks are hugely expensive (well, the nurgle one is, anyway.) it effectively adds a further 7 points to every marine in the squad, but which can be removed with a single casualty. Sergeants are also dang expensive for very little gain (altho can be splatted and possessed by GDs)

I think being over-priced is a general problem with the CSM dex. The few extra points per model add up, and make buying things like power gloves and power weapons for sergeants very difficult.

[Primarch]

Possessed are a little too random perhaps, but S5, 2attacks, 5+ invulnerable save and potentially feel no pain or power weapons makes them reasonable as a unit, if a little expensive.

Random and expensive is not a good combination. If they roll a 6 they get power weapons, which my guys managed for both games Ive used them in. They did indeed do well, but if they had rolled "scout" then that woulda been poop. There are better elite units in the list. Chosen, dreads, even termis are a better choice than possessed. I only have em at all cos i wanted to do the conversions.

You mentioned marks a few times, but bear in mind that marks are hugely expensive (well, the nurgle one is, anyway.) it effectively adds a further 7 points to every marine in the squad, but which can be removed with a single casualty. Sergeants are also dang expensive for very little gain (altho can be splatted and possessed by GDs)

I think possessed ain't all that bad, but as you said, better choices in that slot. For a few points more you get termies.

Having played against the purple pervs many times, Pike has the right idea about Icons/Marks I think. Give your assault units Slaanesh icons and watch them trounce other MEQ in combat before they even get to strike. Nurgle is hideous expensive, as is Tzeentch. Khorne isnt a bad choice against low I or high I armies (ie models you would either always go before OR always go after Tau/Eldar) and you want more attacks. Whilst an icon may cost as much as, or more than a regular member of the squad, the ability to go first or hit harder is not to be sneezed at. Plus, the loyalist teleport homers cost the same and have no extra rules.

[Admiral-Badruck]

not convincing me really for the same points I can get loads more CSM with out a Mark or with a mark... Granted I never though much about Raptors as the Pike's Raptors get worked in every game I have ever seen them play in... but the Meltagun idea is very cool...

[Spevna]

I like Raptors with meltas just fine.

Trying to make a god specific army is where you run into trouble. If you are willing to take all four powers' specific troops you end up with a pretty rock army that can do a bit of everything. Giving everything in the army IoK (like I have) is cool and fluffy, but is basically a self imposed hamstringing.


My only gripe with the codex is icons. I don't want icons. I want my army to have marks.

[me_in_japan]

I like Raptors with meltas just fine.

Trying to make a god specific army is where you run into trouble. If you are willing to take all four powers' specific troops you end up with a pretty rock army that can do a bit of everything. Giving everything in the army IoK (like I have) is cool and fluffy, but is basically a self imposed hamstringing.


My only gripe with the codex is icons. I don't want icons. I want my army to have marks.

what he said.