Is warhammer 40k dead?

[me_in_japan]

At the end of this month, warhammer 40k moves into its 6th edition. Previously, a change of edition would have had me really excited and nervous about how my armies would cope with the changes, and I'd be contemplating what units I'd need to upgrade to take advantage of any new tricks the new rules opened up.

This time around, however, I find myself distinctly uninspired. In fact, truth be told I'm actively repelled from the game at the moment.

Why is this? What has changed about warhammer 40k?

Well, nothing, really. It's not so much the game as the Games Workshop that has caused my change of mood. Over the past year I've been playing a lot of non-GW games, far more so than in previous years. I've had a great time learning to play warmachine. I haven't played half as much Malifaux as I would have liked. I'm really really stoked about the upcoming Battle For Alabaster. I've even dabbled in a bit of Blood Bowl. All of these games excite and inspire me. I'm gagging to paint my Malifaux crew. I've painted 3 heavy war jacks in the past month, and I have my trollbloods waiting in the wings. I think it's fair to say that I'm still very much into miniature wargaming.

But, even though I'm still really keen to game and paint, I find I simply cannot summon up any enthusiasm whatsoever for warhammer 40k. Ive had half painted dark eldar on my painting table for about 3 months now. They bug me. I don't want to paint them, and I feel guilty for not painting them. I have a ton of eldar sitting there, which I know will take me literally years to get finished. There's a voice at the back of my head whispering "what's the point? By the time you paint them there'll be new, expensive sculpts available, which you'll need anyway to keep your army viable."

In short, 40k is killing my love of the hobby.

This got me to thinking: do we even need warhammer 40k? In the greater gaming community at large GW do a lot to pull in new gamers and their dads' wallets, but in our specific gaming group what exactly does 40k do for us? We spend so much time and effort moaning and worrying about the game. Compare the to the other games we play. None of them cause us anything like as much grief. Surely we'd all be better off without warhammer 40k in our lives.

What say you all?

[Spevna]

Short answer, no.

Longer answer, here goes.

I love the setting, fluff, background, minis etc but have no real attachment to the rules.

I want to see a 40K battle being played out by 2 nicely painted armies on a great looking table. Which dice I roll and the reasons for rolling them are secondary.

On that note I suggest not turning our back on 40K, but rather try out new rules. Some options that interest me are,

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthrea ... K-Re-write

One of the Warseer regulars rewrote 40K while keeping the basic skeleton of the actual rules.

http://thegamesshed.wordpress.com/2010/ ... ern-rules/

FUBAR. Very simple rules that make for a fun beer and pretzels game which is what I think 40K should be.

http://galaxyinflames.blogspot.jp/2012/ ... links.html

Killzone. I have always had fun playing this.


I will also add that not much more than an hour ago you were looking to get your hands on a rule book and were offering to buy a copy off of Pikey but then since seeing that rumored rules changes might nerf your army you have done quite the about face.

I summary I would say;

Try other rules out as I know you like the minis and the fluff

Don't be such a drama queen

[Primarch]

Having seen a lot of the rumours floating about (obviously large quantities of salt have been taken as well), I have to say that I am less than impressed by what I am hearing. I LIKE 5th ed and I dont want to see it get changed into some new fangled version of Warhammer Fantasy Battles : 40,000.

That said, I have put a lot of time and effort into the game so I am at least going to look over the 6th edition rules and see if I like what I see. If not, then I can keep playing 5th edition. Just because a new version is available it doesn't mean that I can't still play the older one.

If push comes to shove and I dont like 6th then I have lots of other gaming choices available to me. Malifaux, Warmahordes, Black Powder, Dust Warfare and many other games besides all appeal and I have enough models to play them happily for the next 4 years. I haven't touched WFB since the Orc-tober Fest event last year as it was never my main game to begin with and I didn't think much of the 8th edition ruleset. I still have my fantasy armies and may well play again in the future, but for now they can stay in the cupboard and I will play other games. Will 40K end up like that, waiting for a new edition? Maybe, but I wont know until after it is released. Remember, rumours are just that. They dont tell us the full story so hopefully some good will come of the changes.

[AndrewGPaul]

Having seen a lot of the rumours floating about (obviously large quantities of salt have been taken as well), I have to say that I am less than impressed by what I am hearing. I LIKE 5th ed and I dont want to see it get changed into some new fangled version of Warhammer Fantasy Battles : 40,000.

If there's enough of you who feel the same, then the answer's simple. Stick with 5th edition.

[me_in_japan]

I appreciate that it may have come across as a rather sudden reversal of opinion, but what worries me is that although I was indeed looking to get a copy of the mini rulebook an hour before I wrote this post, I was doing so only because I know that if don't get one I won't be able to get in any wargaming. Or at least, I'll be severely limited in my choice of opponents. In previous years I've happily bought the hugely expensive collectors edition rulebooks, as I felt very attached to the game and wanted the collectibles. This year, I'm barely able to make myself buy the bare minimum, and even that is grudging. It was when I realized that my feelings had changed so completely that I started questioning the need for 40k at all.

As I mentioned above, this isn't a sudden change due to new 40k rules rumors. Those were just the tipping point that made me wonder why we are pandering to GWs constant messing with us. I've commented on my lack of interest in painting GW figs before (in the golden demon thread) and its true that I've had dark eldar sitting on my desk for months in a half painted state. It just really pisses me off that something I've spent huge amounts of money and time on is being taken away from me. I think that's the crux of my problem with the GW situation - I don't feel like I'm walking away from 40k. I feel like I'm being pushed away from it. I no longer want to play, I no longer want to buy GW minis, and I no longer want to paint them. Heck, I'm struggling through "the primarchs" just now, and while in the past I've rather enjoyed black library books, I'm finding it dull as dirt.

[AndrewGPaul]

That's because every Heresy novel after Flight of the Eisenstein, with the possible exception of A Thousand Sons/Prospero Burns have been boring filler. Some of it's badly-written filler, some of it rises to OK, but it's been ten books of timewasting. Read Sandy Mitchell's books, or the Enforcer trilogy instead.

Are your main gaming buddies people on this forum? If so, there's enough "anti-GW2 grumbling that I'm surprised any of you still play at all. Take The Spevna up on his offer of using other rules.

[Spevna]

That's because every Heresy novel after Flight of the Eisenstein, with the possible exception of A Thousand Sons/Prospero Burns have been boring filler. Some of it's badly-written filler, some of it rises to OK, but it's been ten books of timewasting. Read Sandy Mitchell's books, or the Enforcer trilogy instead.

Are your main gaming buddies people on this forum? If so, there's enough "anti-GW2 grumbling that I'm surprised any of you still play at all. Take The Spevna up on his offer of using other rules.

I reckon Andrew is right. I cannot imagine never using my 40K minis. I have spent too much time and money on them. I have spent bugger all money on the rules though. I say let us try another rules set. Could suck baboon anus BUT it might not suck at all. Why not give it a whirl??

[me_in_japan]

I think I'd be up for trying another rule set, but the problem for me isn't the rules, really. It's more that I don't feel interested in 40k (the setting, not just the game) anymore. That's what worries me. If it was just the rules then a change of ruleset would sort it right out, but the whole thing has just soured for me. I think it stems from the fact that I don't want to buy GW minis anymore. Prim made a comment in another thread that I'd feel better when a new eldar dex full of new shiny toys was released. In fact, the opposite is true - im dreading a new eldar dex, exactly because it will be full of shiny new toys, and they will look lovely, and I'll want them. But unless I'm willing to reverse my Spevna stance and once again drop offensively high amounts of cash on them, I won't be able to have them. When you can't keep up with the new releases, when you have to deny yourself all the cool new toys, the game becomes increasingly lackluster, simply because every new release is nothing more than another temptation to resist. It gets to the point where there's nothing to look forward to in the game anymore. I hate that I'm in the position of having to choose between what I want and what I think is right. Yes, it's a free world and I can choose either, but if I do what I perceive to be the right thing, I have to write off years and years of effort, and thousands of pounds worth of miniatures that I've already bought. This bothers me. A lot.

[Danguinius]

I`ll be less concilliatory and kind of agree with MIJ (oh no, I feel a long post with lots of text coming on):

40K - and GW - have been dealt a mortal blow. Is 40K dead? No, but it is bleeding from gaping wounds that will never heal completely. It`s death throes may take several years, but it will never be the invincible king of the mountain again.

I`ve been in the same boat as MIJ, I had just 20 tactical marines and a Fellblade left to finish off my 9000 point Blood Angel army. And what`s easier to paint that tactical marines? But, getting up the nerve to paint them has been agonizing. On the other hand, when my Stormwall comes next week, I will leap at the opportunity to paint it.

I actually got sick of 40K during 5th edition. Yes, we all know the causes of this illness: price hikes, embargoes, codex power increases, trashing of some of the fluff, simpler strategies and stupid rules (especially once you`ve compared the rules to other games). I`m really hoping 6th edition is a major overhaul to 40K so that I feel ispired to play again. But so far, the rule changes look rather piecemeal (like they were from 3rd to 4th and 4th to 5th). So, I`m just not feeling "it" so far.

The whole situation reminds me of my RPG days some 25 years ago (yes, I`m that old). Back then, me and my friends played D&D religiously, much like I played 40K (& Fantasy) religiously until a year or so ago. But, at some point, me and my friends tried some other RPGs, like Champions and Call of Cthulhu because we were interested in those genres as well. Well, unsurprisingly, those companies came after TSR and they looked to improve on the flaws of D&D. The result was better rules, better games, and more fun. It made it hard for me to play D&D after that. Conversely, some members of our groups were strangely "protective" of D&D, despite acknowledging all of it`s flaws. Our group fragmented, but i still had no desire to go back and play D&D.

The same thing is happening in my area wargaming group now. We used to play 40K and WFB in alternating months, but after 8th edition...everyone stopped playing Fantasy. Then, it was 40K every month. But some of us tried other games, mainly WarMachine, Hordes, and Monpoc. We found these games to be better than 40K: more affordable, more fun, more complex strategies, easier start-up for beginners, more interesting and logical rules. Then, it became difficult to go back to 40K. Now are wargaming group is fragmented in almost exactly the same way: half prefer WMH and half steadfastly refuse to even try PP games (they are also "protecive" of 40K). How will it turn out? I don`t know.

I won`t sell off all of my 40K stuff or WFB stuff. I will still play when our group does some big Apocalypse game or such. I actually want to play WFB 8th edition and wish I could find some players. But, I`m not excited about the new 40K. I`m not buying the over-priced rulebook this time (the first time). I`m not buying any new models for 40K. I may sell off one or two of my three armies.

I AM excited almost anytime anything comes out for WarMachine or Hordes. I build and paint up anything I get for those games within days of buying it. I have no stack of unpainted models lying around for these games. I love those games. I really enjoy my battles, win or lose. I have no desire to buy/play second factions with these games; I just want to improve and become a better Cygnar play/better Trollblood player. But at the same time, I know the 40K loyalists in my gaming group will never listen to my opinions on this. I won`t push them, even though I think they would also have more fun with these games. Instead, we will simply devide the wargaming room in half as usual with some people playing 40K and some playing WarmaHordes. I doubt I`ll go back to concentrating on 40K unless the 6th edition rules are fantastic and totally different the 5th edition and level the playing field a bit. And even then, I have 3 fully-painted armies, so I will not buy much more 40K models (haven`t bought anything in 8 months, IIRC).

So, is 40K dead? No., but I can say from this once hardcore 40K player that it has been seriously wounded for me.

Danguinius

[Danguinius]

Sorry to keep rambling here, but just reading MIJ`s post above mine...again I feel the same way. I have about 8000 points of painted Night Lords and I`m dreading the upcoming Chaos Marine Codex? Why? Because I don`t want to buy a new Chaos flyer or three new special characters or new unit (that was somehow hidden in the warp for 10,000 years and only now has decided to show its face). And before someone chimes in with "Well, just don`t buy those units"....we all know that whatever new kit(s) GW produces for the new Chaos Codex, those will be essential for making a competitive army. And most of the things I have already bought and painted will become "unusably bad". I mean, we can say this all out in the open, right? No one is denying that GW does this intentionally, right?

Danguinius