6th ed more complex to learn?

[pdfitzg]

For me, learning 6th hasn't been so bad, although I've hardly had the time to read all of the rules. But the core of the game remains mostly the same so it's an easy enough transition.

But, from a new player POV, especially a young player, I think the game is a bit harder to break into. Of course many of us have kids and we would have liked them to pop out of the womb with dice in one hand and a paint brush in the other, but to my knowledge none of us have been succesful with that yet. In my case, my son is ten. The rule book is massive and he can only read a little before his short attention span wins out, but it's really me that's finding it hard to teach him the new rules with all of the snap shots, initiative pile ins, focus fire, etc. I think I'm going to have to dumb down the game, almost back to 5th ed to have any chance of him retaining the rules. That, or play every day that he's here for the next month (I'd like that, but he'd end up hating 40K).

Anyhow, what about the rest of you? Any difficulties learning the new rules or teaching them to someone else?

[AndrewGPaul]

I wouldn't bother with all the special rules to begin with. All you need to teach at first is the basics - moving, shooting, assault. Just the first 30 pages or so of the rulebook. All the other stuff, such as special rules, characters, psykers, vehicles, unit types and the more complex weapons can wait. Same with stuff like snap shots and the like. Focus Fire doesn't seem too complicated to me - it basically says you can shoot at everybody, or only the models who are easier to see. What's complicated it is that it's got a special title now. Even that, though, can wait until you get the hang of the basics.

That's pretty much the advice you'll get about learning any new game - don't bother learning it all at once.

I don't know if this edition is any more complicated than previous ones - there's more reactive actions, but on the other hand, they've massively simplified Wound Allocation and consolidated a few more special rules for example.

[ashmie]

Yeah I know what you mean. I was under the illusion that GW made their money mainly from teenagers getting into the hobby for a few years but it seems I'm wrong. After researching a bit it appears that the target audience are actually 20's to 30's and 40's and that's where they make their money.
Younger generations have so many great options for games now it's no wonder they don't invest the time in the hobby. Total War franchise for example. No collecting needed and the armies are already painted for you. Sad as that may sound. I met an Eldar player in Kyoto he must have been all of 16 or 17. I asked him how he was going to paint his models for his army. To which he replied, I'm not going to it's mendoksai.
Like video games I'm sure games will develop even more this next generation and kids will find another thing to be interested in. Cowboys and Indians to Star Wars to Aliens and Marines to Mulder and Scully to Harry Potter and Pirates to whatever is next.
Keep it going though with your kids if you can. I'm planning a room of Thomas the Tank Engine model railway kit for my son so I'm sure he will have great fun smashing that up.
"Don't throw that Toby train, it's rare and cost 10,000 en!"

[Tenorikuma]

I'm planning a room of Thomas the Tank Engine model railway kit for my son so I'm sure he will have great fun smashing that up.

Wanna come build one for my son too?

[Auxryn]

I'd definitely say that 6th ed is more complicated than 5th, and thus harder to learn.

However, people very rarely learn 40k by sitting down and reading the whole rulebook, just as people don't learn to play Dungeons and Dragons by reading through the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual. People learn these games because someone else teaches them, not by reading a book.

The Black Reach booklet suggests that you ignore all the special rules for the models and weapons and mostly just use Infantry at first. The book itself says you should just read the rules for the models you own.

I would start with simple situations and slowly work up to more complex ones. Kids always want to order a plain cheese pizza because even plain cheese is totally new to them. Extra toppings are just confusing.

[The Underdweller]

I really doubt most 10 year olds could get through much of the 5th edition book, either! I agree with others, just teach him the simple rules and start playing as soon as possible, it is the best way to learn. (I wonder if he might like a simpler game like Space Hulk to begin with?)

As for 6th edition, I don't find it that much more difficult than 5th; there may be a bit more detail involved in shooting and assaulting, and a few extra rules to learn (flyers, allies, etc.) but actually some of it is a lot more intuitive for me; the people closest to the guns die first, the guy in cover has a better cover save than the guy in the open in the same unit, moving a couple of inches doesn't halve your weapon's range, stuff like that.

Anyway, hope you and your son have fun!

[ashmie]

ashmie wrote:I'm planning a room of Thomas the Tank Engine model railway kit for my son so I'm sure he will have great fun smashing that up.



Wanna come build one for my son too?

Cool, definitely. Couldit run from Nagoya to Tsu perhaps? A Thomas empire.

[pdfitzg]

Thanks for all of the great comments. Read some good advice and had a few laughs. Admittedly some of the issue with us is language based. My Japanese is pre-school level and his English is basic conversational and a little bit of reading and writing. I love it when he says "May I can go to the bathroom?" (History lesson... My ex is Japanese, we met in Hawaii, realized she had the crazy gene, got divorced, she took my son to Japan, and I pay her enough child support that she didn't just cut me off from my son.)

For our first test run of 6th, we focused at the squad on squad level. His Eldar vs. my Sisters. I just grabbed two comparable squads off the shelf. Dire Avengers and SOB squad. He was actually using some of the reference charts in the rule book but said the book was kind of hard to read. It was cool that he found the charts and his unit on his own. Just a couple of pieces of terrain on a 2X2 board. Didn't do any of the mission rules or typical deployment stuff. Put two big pieces of terrain down and had at it. He was upset when he lost his Exarch for being too far out front, but recovered. He actually shot up the Sisters pretty badly and they broke, which on a 2X2 means a quick exit.

Think we'll prestage an assault next followed by bumping it up to two squads each. Maybe we can get a 500 point game in this coming weekend, but no need to rush into it just yet.

[Admiral-Badruck]

I have not even started with reading the rules for my kids they are learning the game as we play. The good thing is they make their own lists.

[pdfitzg]

I have not even started with reading the rules for my kids they are learning the game as we play. The good thing is they make their own lists.

That's impressive!