Are IG the 7th Edition Daemons of 40K?

[Danguinius]

Are you finding even your good lists easily matched and countered by noob IG players? Are you seeing opponents field 5+ Chimeras in every battle. Postgame, do you find yourself saying, "Why the hell do IG Vets get THREE meltaguns in one unit?"...or Postgame, do you find yourself saying, "Fucking IG!"? Is it possible IG have become like Daemons were in the last edition of WFB? That is: are they clearly more powerful that other armies and no fun to play against?

Danguinius

[Primarch]

I think the success of the "leafblower" style lists has a lot to do with how guard are perceived. Personally I feel that the guard are the epitomy of a true 'Take-all-comers' army. They have a way to deal with everything. Unfortunately, unit spamming can be a big part of that. Their ability to field more meltas than the opponents have models is scary, as is the large amount of AV12+ that can be sitting across the board from you at the start of the game.
At the NagoyaHammer event there were 3 guard players, and overall they did ok, but didnt trash everyone in sight as might have been expected. That said, none of the players had 6 chimeras packed with melta carrying veterans in their army. At the recent 40k tourney, we had one guard player who was using a 95% foot slogging force with two big blobs of infantry. Again he did ok, but not outstandingly.
My own IG is a mix of foot, mech and armour which can usually hold it's own. I have had trouble with Orks and Eldar and I find outflanking units to be troublesome.
I think IG aren't broken, but they are open to abuse. They can be beaten, but they are an army (if played well) that you have to plan to beat, which suits them for tourneys where everyone is kitted out for killing marines.

[me_in_japan]

hey! Danguinius - Ohisashiburi.

Hmmn. I must confess I've never really played against a "competitive" IG army. i came up against the aforementioned footslogger force, and was able to take it out by being faster than it and making it come to me (thus shooting less as it moved). I think what prim says is right: IG can spam stuff like no other army, and like any other spam army, if youre playing in a tourney environment itll be a bugger to deal with it. The only solution is to play the meta-game, and build your list specifically to lay the smack down on the mech-vet-melta lists that give you trouble. Beat em a coupla times, (and likely get beat by other players). You wont win the tourney, but the IG wont either. After a coupla iterations of this, theyll get bored and try something else. Thats wot I reckon, anyway.

ps. as an eldar player, chim/vet/melta doesnt seem too scary. a bit, yes, but not bed wettingly so. Melta doesnt bother eldar transports, and if your opponent has moved his guys to where you dont want them to be then you aint scooting around liek you should be. likewise, AV12 on a chimera is fine, cos you shouldnt be shooting enemy tanks in the front anwyay. Maybe its just marines that have trouble with IG? Bear in mind im speaking purely hypothetically here, as ive never come up against this list before. Feel free to shake your head and say "ah, foolish eldar player. he knows not of what he speaks."

btw. if I felt so inclined, I could field 3 wave serpents each containing 10 fire dragons for 810 points. That leaves plenty of points for some troops (120 pts for 10 avengers, 80 for ten guardians, or 66 for 3 jetbikes.) If eldar want, they can spam with the best of em. In fact, t'internet tells me that DA/FD in WS spam is the way to win. It just seems so...boring, though.

[Admiral-Badruck]

I have Faced IG a number of times never a "leaf Blower list" I have pulled some crazy wins and have had a couple of very tight draws. And I have had my army shot to sugar in like 2 turns. The are a fun army to play against unless you are playing Apoc then they are a very fun army to play against especially if you like to see things go BOOM... I have mixed feelings about spamming it can really be the down fall of the army... Some of the folks that took "Leaf blowers" to The Big tournament in texas got stomped by normal Marines... I love the IG Dex and I can't wait to get my own IG armies started. If only I could win like 100,000,000 yen some how...

Prime how about that for the next Tournament prize...

[Primarch]

If only I could win like 100,000,000 yen some how...
Prime how about that for the next Tournament prize...

Oi! Watch the language there.

Ok everyone, by badruck's demand, the entrance fee for the next NagoyaHammer 40k tourney will be 10,002,500 yen assuming 10 people sign up.

Sigh.

The one and only time I have used IG in a tournament was right after their dex was released. I tabled a Tau army, got a kicking from some orks and then tabled an eldar army. (who only had 1 squad of dragons in a serpent). I finished the tournament by taking Badruck's vaunted Khorne/Nurgle daemon army and darn near tabled them too. If he hadnt been hiding his last squad of bloodletters out of sight I could have done it too.

Next time Badruck, next time.

[Primarch]

btw. if I felt so inclined, I could field 3 wave serpents each containing 10 fire dragons for 810 points.

IG can field 50 veterans in 5 chimeras with 15 melta guns between them for 775 points. Plus they are scoring. Or they can take 40 veterans in valkyries with 12 meltas between them for 800 points, which gives them fast, scouting skimmers. Turn one they are in your base drinking your booze and making out with your wives. And they are still scoring.

To be honest though, 10 fire dragons is overkill on any target except perhaps terminators or meganobs.

[Mike the Pike]

I have mixed feelings about spamming it can really be the down fall of the army...

If you spammed any more you would be named honorary chairman of Hormel Foods!
Unless by mixed feelings you mean taking 180 boys or just 179.
Three vanilla Land Raiders or two vanilla and one Crusader.
Three Soul Grinders with tongue or three with Phlegm.

[Mike the Pike]

Back on topic...

We are lucky up here in the Midlands as no-one has fielded a 'leaf-blower' list yet although it is only a matter of time before Prim and/or the Madmiral does.

As others have mentioned, the list seems designed to annihilate MEQ armies. But, how does it fare against hordes? Wouldn't Ork mobz with a scattering of power fists own it, seeing as though so many points are invested in potent one shot weapons?

Also, how would it go against a MSU/MSE army. All those melta guns can only kill one unit at a time. The squad next to it then gets to have it's wicked way next turn. Five bare bones marines with a flamer should be able to do the biz, shouldn't they?

Edit: 6 squads of six marines (including a champion), with flamers and in Rhinos clocks in at just over 800pts. All are scoring, and up close and personal capable should eat IG alive. Sure the melta guns will mess up some of the squads but then you have others to do the business.

That's my two yen anyways.

[Primarch]

The leaf-blower list isnt one shot suicide units alone. The list is backed with a bunch of S6, Ap3, No cover save, large blast markers. Once your rhinos are popped, the guys inside are dead.
Luckily for everyone locally, those guns/models aren't available yet and unlike the Admiral, I dont like proxying stuff.

[Mike the Pike]

But the MEQ list isn't just small anti-guard units either. 5 Chosen with 2 Meltas is only 110 points. Obliterators, the bane of IG backlines are only 75 points a pop.

Howz about posting up a typical 'leaf blower' list so we can dissect it bit by bit? Prim. as the resident Imperial fanboy, care to share any inside tips on how to beat it?