40K 10th Ed. Discussion Thread

[Jye Nicolson]

Yeah, some of the guard stuff is very similar to their current Codex (it is possible to take traits other than autowound-on-6 but nobody does ), but there's some new stuff too and it does look solid. As always we're missing tons of context but it looks like they won't need to mourn their short lived Codex too much.

(I don't think you'd need to look too far for sky-is-falling reactions though).


Also it turns out that you can flick through a few pages of the book on warhammer40000.com, and the Crusade section is particularly interesting - in that there is basically *nothing* new in it. Crusade looks identical in terms of basic structure. I expect the details of Battle Honours and faction rules will be very different but you could plausibly do a conversion.

[Mattb]

I'm pretty happy with what we've seen of 10th so far. The biggest problem with 9th to me was codex creep and the utterly absurd lethality of everything. Most of the games of 9th edition I've played have practically been over by turn 2 or maybe 3 because one of the armies will have inevitably been turned to ash at that point. I'm pretty neutral on most of the core rule changes, since I actually really liked the 9th core rules and the changes to morale especially seem great. Really, as long as I can end up actually playing the game for longer than it takes to unpack and deploy my army then I'll be happy.

I'm still not completely convinced they'll fix that issue though - like Primarch said, they're supposed to be reducing the rerolls yet we've seen a ton of them so far.

The new Imperial Guard look pretty solid, though the infantry squads have been rearranged since I last looked at a codex. I guess heavy weapons are no longer included in the regular squads and are taken separately.

They've split up Guard infantry into multiple data sheets now. You have your Cadian Shock Troops, Death Korps, Catachans and a generic infantry squad. All seperate data sheets with different options - the generic infantry squad can take heavy weapons whilst the others just take special weapons.

It appears that GW is being pretty liberal with the "Lethal Hits" ability. (In my previous post I thought it was Mortal Wounds, but that is the Devastating Wounds ability. Lethal Hits is just Auto Wound. My bad).

Necrons: We have weapons so advanced they defy the very laws of physics.
CSM: We beseech the powers of the warp to bless our weapons with eldritch energy.
Guard (standing still): PEW PEW B!tc#es!

I can understand that the designers want to balance things, but lore-wise I'm not sure how to justify a bunch of conscripts, armed with one of the weakest weapons in the setting, turning tanks to swiss cheese by simply standing still.

Well to be fair, that will be for "born soldiers" which represents soldiers like Cadians who're raised and trained from birth rather than random conscripts. Besides, it's pretty heavily balanced by the 'standing still' caveat which is a huge downside in 40k. So not quite as good as the other factions' auto wounds.

The faction previews have been interesting so far - not a lot to actually make a judgement on but a good way to see the direction they're going in. The Chaos dark pact stuff looks super interesting and potentially really strong, although I think Marines take the cake with Oath of Moment. Full rerolls for any enemy a turn is pretty ridiculous.

I'm pretty happy with the Guard preview: 20 man squads and a reinforcement stratagem makes me think they might be pushing hordes a bit more. Pretty excited by the demolisher cannon as well since it's one of my favourite guns. Other than that there's not too much to go off of just yet.

[Primarch]

And Chaos Daemons are up. The Shadow of Chaos army rule looks like it will lead to a lot of fights over objectives. Being able to regenerate wounds/cause wounds on Ld checks is kind of cool too. It will also make taking the Daemon player's backfield objectives a bit tougher, as they are always within the shadow. I'm not sure how that will work out on the table, but as a unique army mechanic it seems fun.

I wonder if Grey Knights will get something to counter it?

There is also an article about the Combat Patrol version of the game. 40K-lite looks promising as an introductory game while still offering a lot of variety. I can also see it appealing to the hobby butterflies who want to collect everything, as a one-box-purchase army means you can very quickly get something new on the table.

The article also says:

And you can look forward to Combat Patrol sections in future Codexes!

Could it be that each codex will come with alternative Combat Patrol options...

[Jye Nicolson]

Combat Patrol sounds awesome

- the key problem for 9th is the *learning curve*. Zero upfront decisions rather than faction means you can learn the core rules and your basic faction identity without having to swallow all the other stuff at the same time. This will prepare you to deal with your Codex, which in 10th should be a smoother jump anyway due to Detachments.

- there's an explicit comparison to Rivals for Underworlds, which as Dave will attest is *great*. I don't expect Combat Patrol to work quite as well as Rivals does, but if it channels any of its virtues it'll be a winner. Rivals isn't 100% balanced but is massively less prone to blowouts; the weaker deck is still meaningfully playing the game even if it's a longshot, they're not just getting crushed. But the best part is it cuts out prep, if you throw some models and some rivals decks in your bag you're set up for a good game day. Combat Patrol won't be that convenient but if you ensure you have the right models (or reasonable proxies) as a subset of the models in your case you'll always be ready for a pickup game at a game day.

[jus]

Charge

This might have just been the guy taking us through having a melted brain after 3 days, but apparently you roll for the charge and then declare targets after you know the results.

The first model has to end base to base with the charged unit. Each model you move in has to end in base to base if it can. Models in base to base contact cannot pile in. Models that are base to base contact can fight, and also models in the same squad that are in base to base contact with them.

Battle shock

I like this! If what they say is to be believed. It seems like a sensible change o charges in 9th and a return to 4th/5th edition. If it really is base to base to (your)base can fight you don't need to try and fit your tape measure beneath terain to measure if they are within 2 inches to fight.

Yes, I agree that guard look fun! The 2Cp strategem to bring back a destroyed squd as "reinforments"! is really cool and thematic.

I'd also briefly like to note that while lethality is down across the board for infantry which is great. I find the faction focus boss units (abaddon, G-man, screamer killer, skarbrand e.t.c ) have gotten more lethal.

All seem to follow the pattern of lots of attacks, twos to hit, threes to wound, AP lots, target fails (say 3) saves, (takes 12-19 wounds) and dies.
Yes, I understand that the full gamut of rules and possible mitigating factors have not yet been released other than G-man fighting back with only in death does duty end and maybe coming back to life after dying. HOWEVER, I find it interesting because....

They feel like they have taken the role of the queen in chess. It can take out anything on the board (except high toughness vechiles) but be taken out by a charge from another queen. So it seems like it might become a game of how do you support your "queen" unit and when to commit it. Anyway I thought it was kinda cool.


*unless this is how things were in 9th already and I don't know any better

edit: combat patrols do sound really cool and sound great for a quick pick up game. I am indeed a hobby butterfly and have several already

[Primarch]

This wasn't expressly stated elsewhere, but was sort of explained in the Daemons preview. Each model only gets to attack with one of its melee weapons unless that weapon has the Extra Attacks rule. So while Guilliman and Abaddon do have a lot of attacks, they have to select one of their weapons each combat.

[jus]

Yes, I was only talking about using one weapon. Guilliman averages around 12- 16 wounds with the hand of dominion by itself.

EDIT: with oaths of moment. I should add.

statistically, with just one weapon profile (the character killer one), your chunky boy will very probably delete the other chunky boy.
screamer killer charges Abaddon = 10 atacks twos to hit, twos to wound : Abaddon needs to only fail three 4+ invulns. Statistically Abaddon is very very dead.
The outcome for the reverse is also quite similiar:
Abaddon charges screamer killer with just Drachneyen (shadows in the warp may deter us from dark pacting but let's dark pact, who cares?) = very good chance of dead screamer killer.

[Jye Nicolson]

The faction focus always having one centrepiece model is good for hype but makes it even harder to judge how things will play. They're wild for sure, but also likely to have a big point cost so do you even take them, or is there a non Epic-Hero character that can join a unit and take the right enhancement at half the cost you want instead? Who knows!

[Primarch]

I think Abaddon can hide in a unit of Terminators, so thats a few ablative wounds for him.

[jus]

Yes that's true. Valid points both!