40K 10th Ed. Discussion Thread

[Primarch]

The new starter box minis look cool.

Looking at the preview for the missions etc, the table sizes are based on the current game mats I guess? 3.66' by 5' is a little smaller than I'm used to, but the 3000 point game needs a 3.66' by 7.5' seems difficult to achieve.

The cards for the missions seem handy (it looks like they are in the Leviathan box). I'm not too sure what to make of the Gambits, if you aren't scoring any objectives anyway, having to go off and do something else and then rely on a high roll doesn't seem like it will be easy to accomplish.

[Jye Nicolson]

Yeah, the sizes are multiples of Kill Team boards.

It looks like 1000 points is bumping up to four boards from two. This is kind of important to us because it's the most common format in Nagoya and we'll need twice the space (equal to a current 2K game) - not a big deal but no squeezing two games to a table during the initial surge of popularity at the start of the edition

It should reduce the lethality of the 1000 point format, though I hope it doesn't make melee too easy to avoid. I guess the objectives will draw in things for them to swat.

[Jye Nicolson]

(I said that, but I guess we'll actually play a lot of Combat Patrol initially? That's still on two boards, it seems)

[Primarch]

I found this summary of the post Leviathan Q&A over on the Bolter&Chainsword forum.

I went to the 40k Q&A at Warhammer Fest today and took some notes on the answers.

I think a lot is stuff that we know already, but in case it's interesting to anyone here are my notes (in the order asked)

Thousand Sons and different psychic powers between squads

Squads with same datasheet will have same abilities (i.e. two rubric squads will be the same)

Adding characters can add their abilities (e.g. the librarian datasheet we've seen)

Alternating activations

No, still not a thing.

Index cards

Intending to keep the launch ones in stock until the relevant codex comes out.

When codex comes out, index cards will be replaced. The launch version of the cards will be free to download (don't know if the codex versions will be, wasn't clear)

If some armies are creaking around the edges, other routes to change them may be done (presumably this just means balance dataslates etc)

Scalpers? Maybe physical pre-order day in store?

Intend to have queues on page, throttle number can be put in cart, etc. Physical release day does raise legal issues, has to be able to be ordered from every possible location at the same time or the monopoly commission will get involved. They hadn't heard that particular suggestion before.

Psyker units and mortal wounds

Less mortal wounds overall. Idea is for every army to have a way to deal with every other army

Preventing feels bad, super powerful units

Usually unbalanced things are mistakes. Reducing layering of rules is intended to reduce snowballing rules and codex creep, that's why there are different detachments with one-in-one-out rules. Eddie Eccles mentioned Gladius strike force and iyanden force while answering this, but it sounded more like he was trying to come up with examples on the fly rather than confirming that Iyanden would be a named detachment and not being represented by a wraith host detachment or something.

Flyers

Interesting one for making rules, as they don't really play in same ballpark as most of 40k.

Tried to make them impactful in the game, but not changing the game.

They will be generally terrible at holding objectives, but good at hitting things and flying away (so not really any change there?)

Flamers auto-hitting flyers

Not all flamers auto hit, but auto-hit weapons will still auto-hit flyers - stated that sometimes to avoid awkward rule exceptions they have to accept a slightly weird interaction like this.

Space marine chapters

BA, DA, SW, BT, DW have their own index decks. With the codex release, there might be a bike detachment etc. It will say white scars typify it, but not limited. Imperial Fists-like siege detachment, etc.

Combat patrol

To play combat patrol, you just use a combat patrol box. You can use a subset of each side of the Leviathan box as a combat patrol too (think there was a screenshot of the subset in question in the video). Combat patrol will generally ignore weapon options to make however you build the kit not matter - e.g. Dreadnought sheet might just have "Dreadnought long range weapons" or something like that (dunno if that is actually the case for a Dreadnought or just a random possible example)

Deny the witch

There is no deny the witch. Some units have abilities that give feel no pain against attacks with psychic attacks. Eddie couldn't remember exactly, but Sisters of Silence have some kind of no psychic powers within 6" or something similar.

Relics/warlord traits

Enhancements replace these

Will models that can only be bought with other things (the necron/SM stuff from Indomitus that you can only buy together currently for example) be made available on their own?

They don't have a blanket rule to ensure everything is available separately. Impossible to make every single thing in 40k available separately as the warehouses couldn't handle it. Stuff that shares a sprue would need redesigning on its own sprue. When codexes come out, they look at things that need refreshing, new things, things that aren't available on their own yet, etc, and decide from those what to make.

Any plan to make the remaining two c'tan available not in resin?

"Who says there's only 2?"

Imperial armour

Coming after launch, but not long after

Will there be more Heresy/40k crossover units, tanks etc?

Differences between the way legions and chapters fight. Things may not cross over. If you want space marines with crazy space marine stuff, then heresy will have lots.

Things coming new to Crusade?

They decided it mostly works pretty well currently. Didn't want to rock the boat too much, so a lot the same. Rules are delivered differently to currently. Crusade rules likely delivered alongside narrative updates, 4th Tyrannic war etc. Crusade rules will be in codex. (I guess the biggest change will be power level going away, they didn't mention that here though)

Leagues of votann - faction still has large gaps

Kill team coming soon, miniatures with codex release, avoided saying anything might happen before that despite the questioner repeating it

Balance dataslates still happening?

Intent to keep trying to make 40k balanced. Probably still quarterly.

Will 10th have reactions like Horus Heresy?

Not exactly like Horus Heresy, but a lot of stratagems are reactive. Overwatch a lot more flexible. Mentioned the deep strike on the opponent turn one.

True line of sight, cover

New edition is more generous to defender than attacker than it is currently, easier to get coffee cover bonus across whole unit rather than individual models.

Plasma, does it still work the same?

Different plasma weapons have different amounts of settings (they mentioned 1, 2, or even 3), mostly it's still just "safe" or "not safe" like currently

New model for Ezekiel?

Probably update some minis with codex release and do some new stuff. Didn't confirm anything specific. Sounds like each codex will probably be accompanied by multiple miniatures being released for the faction.

Can leaders be joined to vehicles?

No

Will BT for example need both BT and SM Codex?

No. In most cases you only need one codex. If taking allies e.g. Imperial knights you will need the datacard for the unit as well, but they don't get any of their codex rules so you don't really need anything beyond the data card and options

News about new 40k App?

New app coming. Current app doesn't support new rules. Will still have benefits for WH+. Can still unlock stuff with codes (so I'd guess all indices will be available on release and then have to unlock individual codices, like with the 9th ed app)

Space marine named characters

Very few, if any, limits on which detachments you can take specific characters in. However, you can only take characters from one chapter in the same detachment, you can't mix and match and take Tigurius and Tor Garadon, for example.

Will Sergeant Chronus be able to pilot primaris vehicles?

Didn't know off top of head, but if he works the same as currently then "probably" (they acknowledged that would make him stronger)

I missed the last question, but I don't think it revealed anything.

In addition, from playing 10th:

Blast

Now you add 1 extra hit per 5 models in the target squad, it doesn't affect the dice roll. This does mean you can roll max shots and then still add more.

Charge

This might have just been the guy taking us through having a melted brain after 3 days, but apparently you roll for the charge and then declare targets after you know the results.

The first model has to end base to base with the charged unit. Each model you move in has to end in base to base if it can. Models in base to base contact cannot pile in. Models that are base to base contact can fight, and also models in the same squad that are in base to base contact with them.

Battle shock

Again, could be the guy's melting brain, but you check for battle shock in both your own and your opponent's command phase.

EDIT: Others have reported that their instructor person said it was only in your own command phase, which I think matches with the warcom article. This is what happens when you have people teaching non-stop for 3 days, they get muddled up!

CP

You start with 0, and gain 1 in both player's command phases.

Edit: also, you only consolidate if you wiped the squad you were engaged with, if you do you can do it towards an objective rather than towards an opposing unit.

[Primarch]

Huh, given that I always see people playing 40K at the monthly games, I would have thought there would be more discussion of the new edition. All of the faction previews so far have looked interesting, and I'm looking forwards to seeing what Necrons get in their preview.

Though every preview so far has had a unit (or two) with some form of re-rolls available.

The Nids look like they are going to be very dangerous against armies with poor leadership. Even marines won't pass all the battleshock tests they can inflict.
The CSM Dark Pact ability looks a little underwhelming when used to buff bolters, but could be very mean on some units.

[Jye Nicolson]

I'm excited but I am doing my best not to form too many opinions with so little context.

The faction focuses are interesting but it's hard to draw meaning from the little bits they're showing. All three so far have shown a faction leader tier unit, but we don't know what their point costs are, and we haven't seen even one full Detachment two-pager yet.

I'm very keen to see how Crusade rules will work, and super hanging out for as much detail as possible about Combat Patrol (I think this will be a super important game mode for teaching the game, and will suit the pace and timeslots of the club nicely).

Mostly though I'm not worried, and not hyped out of my brain. I'm a fan of 9th edition and everything I've heard so far about 10th seems pretty positive. So for me it looks like a solid iteration of what I'm already enjoying rather any kind of big reversal. Even Indexhammer is fine when you have as many factions as I have, some of them are bound to be good*

On the other hand I hope that for folks that didn't get into 9th (or didn't put as much effort into keeping up with it as I did), it is a big change in terms of accessibility and that gives more folks a chance to join in on the 40K play at any given game day. I think the progression of Combat Patrol --> Index Detachment should actually take care of that, it's just we won't know for sure until we're rolling dice.



* Good being strong of course, but also interesting and feeling like a fair challenge to the opponent. Though I guess an Imperium faction that can hand out a proper beating to the traitors wouldn't go astray, for online use if nothing else...

[Jye Nicolson]

OK having said that the Necron one is interesting because it illustrates the intention to be more accessible really well.

Resurrection Protocols is much more user friendly to deal with at the table and much more reliable for multiwound models. +1 to hit is now a buff a unit gets for being joined by any character rather than handed out to a unit in range by a noble, so it widens the niche for all the little buff characters (like that Royal Warden in the first issue of Imperium) and requires one less decision. The Protocols seem to still be around but are your strats rather than a sequence of additional effects you need to plan for.

It looks quite plausible that it all does basically the same thing with much less cognitive load.

(The specific interaction of Resurrection Protocols and Oath of Moment doesn't look great for Crons vs Marines, especially in smaller games, but with no other context it's hard to say how much that will matter)

[Primarch]

I'm quite happy with the Necron preview. The warriors being less effective unless led by a character fits with the mindless legions theme, and the Reanimation Protocols seem fairly straightforward. It looks like every unit will get that d3 wounds (or more) back a turn, so it is going to be tough to wear down a unit bit by bit. I would guess a Lord equipped with a Resurrection Orb will be able to increase the RP's results somehow too. Focusing on removing a unit from the board will be key to beating Necrons I think.

Gauss weapons cause Mortal Wounds on a 6, which sounds good. Mortal Wounds ignore armour saves I guess? I'm not up to date on these newfangled rules.

[Jye Nicolson]

Yes, mortals are applied separately and do not get a save (but can be resisted with Feel No Pain if you have it).

[Primarch]

The new Imperial Guard look pretty solid, though the infantry squads have been rearranged since I last looked at a codex. I guess heavy weapons are no longer included in the regular squads and are taken separately.

It appears that GW is being pretty liberal with the "Lethal Hits" ability. (In my previous post I thought it was Mortal Wounds, but that is the Devastating Wounds ability. Lethal Hits is just Auto Wound. My bad).

Necrons: We have weapons so advanced they defy the very laws of physics.
CSM: We beseech the powers of the warp to bless our weapons with eldritch energy.
Guard (standing still): PEW PEW B!tc#es!

I can understand that the designers want to balance things, but lore-wise I'm not sure how to justify a bunch of conscripts, armed with one of the weakest weapons in the setting, turning tanks to swiss cheese by simply standing still.

The orders look nice and simple, and the Volcano Cannon seems suitably deadly. I do cringe every time the writers use the word 'Regiment' though.

I'm enjoying these snap shots of the new edition. Just enough info to encourage rampant speculation, not enough to convince people that the sky is/isn't falling depending on their outlook.