40K 10th Ed. Discussion Thread

[YellowStreak]

I'm excited for bigger Termies, but then i love Termies!

[Grantholomeu]

For the past three editions it's been, "We're going to simplify everything so you don't need so many books and reference points!" only to of course come out with more books and reference points until it's too much and they can repeat the cycle. Sorry I'm a little bah humbug about it, but I don't have much hope it'll change honestly...

However I did see the Objective Secured thing, which looks cool if it's done well. No more Avatar of Khaine wiping out all but one termagant on a point and it still somehow being considered a Tyranid-held position.

[Jye Nicolson]

They will definitely come out with more Stuff and it'll add up over the edition but there's some indications they're serious about that being swap in, swap out rather than strictly additive.

The way Boarding Patrol works now, you lose almost all relics, strats etc and just gain a select few to use in Boarding Actions. Likewise the World Eaters work like 10th Detachments are supposed to, you essentially pick one of two limited packages of stuff (somewhat awkwardly shoehorned in as an Army of Reknown but it seems to work the same way as 10th).

Characters joining units *probably* cuts down on complexity in this iteration but I guess auras were supposed to cut down on the complexity of characters joining units so we'll see how it shakes out in full

[Grantholomeu]

Just saw they're increasing Toughness on vehicles. I think it's a much needed change, but I also feel like they need to rescale everything since if we're now on a 1-15 (or so) Toughness scale, the difference between 4 and 5 Toughness or 3 and 4 Toughness won't matter as much. Honestly I think it hasn't mattered as much as it should recently since strength on weapons has been getting better and better. It used to be significantly harder to pump out enough high strength, high ap shots to mow down a squad of marines, but now it feels like marines die nearly as easily as horde troops a lot of the time.

I'm also curious what they'll do with dreadnoughts, tau robots, big monsters, etc.

[Jye Nicolson]

With the full redo of sheets and the chance for weapon rebalancing I think we'll see a bit of that smearing things across the scale. They felt safe putting termies at T5 at least, and the bumping of Str on some anti tank stuff at least (see krak missiles) in this context lets it keep up at 4+ to wound moreso than giving it more chances to wound on 3+.

My context-free guess is that getting the right balance of weapons into your opponent will be more important, which is good in that it involves more thinking without needing more complex rules. My worry would be skew lists might benefit and low quantity, high quality weapons will feel swingy into vehicles, but it's not a serious worry when we still know so little.

[Grantholomeu]

Oh sick, I didn't hear about T5 terminators. I wonder if that means T6 Deathshroud and Blightlord terminators... I think a problem they're going to have in balancing is that it's kind of common now to have squads loaded with all big guns, so it's going to be hard to make it so that troops don't get absolutely mowed down while allowing those guns to still do decent damage to vehicles. Because if that happens everyone's just going to take all vehicles. I'd say the olden days where usually only a few heavy weapons were allowed per squad would be nice, but they probably won't do that because everyone has models with special weapons now. So I think making special weapons somewhat expensive is probably the answer.

[Primarch]

If 2x toughness = instant death, then T5 or even T6 may not mean a lot. Hopefully the S/T changes will lead to a greater spread in weaponry, where you need certain guns for certain targets. The issue will then be ensuring that the high S, high AP guns don't get dozens of shots and aren't dirt cheap.
One of the issues in the 30K meta is 10-man lascannon squads which can delete elite units with ease from across the table.
Also, while the odds are low, I dislike the fact that it looks like you can still gun down a tank with lasrifles. Guns that have a 50/50 chance to wound a guardsman shouldn't also get a 1 in 6 chance at going through a tank. #grumblegrumble#

[Grantholomeu]

Saw the weapon details they released today. Honestly I think it looked pretty good! I like that they seem to not want to increase strengths much, and focus more on things like melta being relevant. Seems a step in the right direction in that gun-x is good in situation-x and gun-y is good in situation-y and that requires a bit more strategizing.

[Primarch]

So a Critical Wound causes a Devastating Wound which causes a Mortal Wound? And they say that they have simplified things?

Every time I read one of these articles it seems like they are claiming one thing, but then the reveal shows the opposite to be true.

All your stratagems and rules will be on a two page spread. - There are also more stratagems in the book.
Re-rolls are very rare now. - The basic rule for marines gives them rerolls every turn.
Characters no longer have auras. - Lone operative characters have auras.
Most guns have not increased in strength. - Melta and Railguns have increased in strength.

All of this kind of undermines the message about the changes they have made IMHO. Are these the only exceptions or just the tip of the iceberg. And if they have made exceptions already, it is much easier to make more in the future. Overall, the changes sound good, but how long the changes last is anyone's guess.

[Grantholomeu]

As for weapons, I'm not sure what railgun we're talking about, but assuming a railgun is a tank-busting weapon, I feel like boosting tank busting weapons will probably be good if they're also going to boost vehicle toughness. Plus they only boosted melta rifles by +1 str (compared to 8th as I remember it at least), or +3 in half range. I think vehicles might still be very good, but they would be undeniably too good if after managing to make your way up to a tank with a meltagun, you still only wounded on 5+.

I hadn't seen the basic Marine rule before, but that does seem ridiculous and I hope it's modified before release.