new FW achilles and its stupid, stupid rules...

[me_in_japan]

*sigh*

Ferromantic Invulnerability: The hull of the Achilles has been specially
constructed to resist even the most determined assault and is almost
preternaturally resilient. As a result, the Land Raider Achilles is not
subject to the particular effects of the Lance and Melta special rules
by attacks made against it. In addition it reduces the effects of all rolls
on the damage chart made against it (other than by Destroyer type
weaponry), by -1.

Way to go on the exhaustive playtesting, lads. Dark Eldar and Eldar. Strongest weapon in the army is S8 (lance or melta) but thanks to the silly special rule, those rules dont work. This means that the best they can hope for is a glancing hit, and that means -2 on all damage rolls. But nae, there's an additional -1 on that, cos of the silly special rules. That means the absolute best an eldar or dark eldar army can hope for is a 3. That's right kids. A 3. And to get that 3, one needs to first hit it and then roll a 6. So for eldar, that means 1 in 12 shots will, at best, blow off a gun.


WTF? Am I being stupid or have FW finally released an invincible model?

p.s. I am officially requesting Primarchial permission to use cuss words in relation to this abomination. While the Caestus' brokenness is spread around the fields of weaponry, movement and armour, this thing out-breaks it in the armour field by a long shot. Never again shall I say that FW cannot release a more broken model, for lo, they shall prove me wrong...

[me_in_japan]

aha! The d-cannon and wraithcannon finally find their niche!

darkeldar are still bollixed, though.

and no, i dont think close combat counts...

[Admiral-Badruck]

well I guess I need to field three Achilles then.... sounds good to me ... but hey I have to say that is a bit rubish... that they seem to have made it just as the Dark Eldar show up with a Lance melta weapon... and not that the nids have an AP1 S10 lance weapon... the Marine guys were like that is too good...

and the marketeing guys were like how can we continue to sell landraiders?? .. I know we will give them more special rules...

[me_in_japan]

well I guess I need to field three Achilles then

At this point I would like to step in and mention that anyone found proxying Landraider Achilles in games against me will find themselves falling afoul of the ol' "opponent's consent" rule. i.e. proxying is ok if your opponent gives his consent. Let's be up front here: I won't.

If, however, you decide to go and buy 3 of the damn things then there is nothing I can do about it, and I will play against em, but it'll make for a boring as hell game, lemme warn ya.

[Spevna]

well I guess I need to field three Achilles then

At this point I would like to step in and mention that anyone found proxying Landraider Achilles in games against me will find themselves falling afoul of the ol' "opponent's consent" rule. i.e. proxying is ok if your opponent gives his consent. Let's be up front here: I won't.

If, however, you decide to go and buy 3 of the damn things then there is nothing I can do about it, and I will play against em, but it'll make for a boring as hell game, lemme warn ya.

What if I scratchbuild 3 of the buggers?

[Primarch]

Because Eldar tanks are reknowned for being easy to kill and have no special rule vs. Meltas or Ordnance.

Also, Monoliths and living metal. Look it up.

[Primarch]

2 minutes looking at Eldar Codex

Things that can penetrate the Achilles Armour
Fire Prism S9 (Hey isnt 9 higher than an 8?)
Fuegan with his 2d6+5 axe and he has tank hunter so his gun is S9 against armour (hey thats higher than an 8 too).
The Maugetar S6 with Rending can beat AV 14
Wraithlord S10 +2d6 (is there anything in the dex that isnt higher than S8?)
Haywire grenades.
Eldritch Storm
Singing Spears S9
Avatar S6 +2d6

[Spevna]

2 minutes looking at Eldar Codex

Things that can penetrate the Achilles Armour
Fire Prism S9 (Hey isnt 9 higher than an 8?)
Fuegan with his 2d6+5 axe and he has tank hunter so his gun is S9 against armour (hey thats higher than an 8 too).
The Maugetar S6 with Rending can beat AV 14
Wraithlord S10 +2d6 (is there anything in the dex that isnt higher than S8?)
Haywire grenades.
Eldritch Storm
Singing Spears S9
Avatar S6 +2d6

How dare you insinuate that M_I_J was being a whiny little nancy-boy, complaining for no other reason than he has sand in his girly private parts. How dare you sir!!

[me_in_japan]

and no, i dont think close combat counts...

I did mention that I wasnt considering CC. If your only chance of killing something is running up and kicking it then something is wrong with game balance. All the Landy has to do to stay outta trouble is move more than 6" a turn and you'll be bloody lucky to even hit it. Its not like there's even anything that you can swarm it with in the hope of averaging some hits.

so, removing the aforementioned incredibly unlikely CC options from those you suggested, we are left with:

Fire Prism (odds of a penetrating hit: 1 in 6)
Fuegan shooting (odds of a penetrating hit: 1 in 6)
Eldritch Storm (odds of a penetrating hit: 1 in 36)

that's three, the absolute best of which is 1 in 6. I'll grant you that a fire prism is a contender for a potential solution, but it's still only a 1 in 6 chance. MathHammer say: 1 in 3 chance of hitting. Let's imagine that becomes 1 in 2 if we're being generous about scatter. 1 in 6 of those hits penetrate, and only 1 in 6 of those hits actually kill the landy, due to silly special rules. That means you have a 1 in 72 chance of killing it.

Fuegan Mathhammers out at 1 in 42ish, due to his better BS.

on that note: Fire dragon exarchs can give tank hunter to their squad. Thatd mean a squad of 6 dragons has a 1 in 9 chance, which is pretty good, actually. That means you'll kill one landy every one and a half games, if it just sits there like a plank and lets you whale on it, every single turn, for 6 turns...

If we're gonna nitpick, I'll change my description of it from "invincible" to "incredibly boringly difficult to kill".

btw, Prim - what say you on the cuss word usage - does this thing warrant a visit from Father Jack?

*edit* ah, re-reading my first post, I can see why you were pointing out the whole S9 being stronger than S8. I meant that the strongest weapons in the eldar army were S8 if you factor in lance or melta. Gomen - dat wasnt so clear. Obviously S9 is stronger than S8. I can count, yknow...

[me_in_japan]

Because Eldar tanks are reknowned for being easy to kill and have no special rule vs. Meltas or Ordnance.

Yes. Yes eldar tanks are very easy to kill. theyre armour 10. thats one more than 9, and one less than 11. armour 10. on the back. where the only door is. there.

And as Im sure youre aware there is one and only one eldar tank that has special rules vs melta and ordnance. The key difference between it and the landy are the landy is AV14 with a silly special rule that says melta has no effect (as opposed to the eldar tank's anti melta, which specifies the 2D6 roll only, not the damage roll), whereas the eldar tank is AV 12 if yer lucky, and 10 if yer not. You dont need a melta gun to kill that.