GW at it again?

[Primarch]

It looks like GW are off protecting their IP again. This time from Chapter House Studios, a company that makes resin "replacements" for GW parts.
GW claims that CHS is imposing on their copyright. CHS does make prolific use of GW imagery and terms all over its site, though they do normally add a little note saying "We dont intend to infringe on GW," which of course, makes it all ok.
This is one of CHS's Rhino upgrade kits.

Chouse.jpg

Whilst this is one from Forge World.

FWorld.jpg

Do GW have a case? I reckon that they do here. They make the same product and CHS make no effort to hide the fact that they are relying on GW customers to buy their pieces rather the FWs.

Now I know that there are some people out there who hate GW and see this as them picking on the little guy, but GW has worked very hard to build up their universe and their intellectual property. Allowing anyone to blatantly trade off their name opens the door for lots of copies, counterfeits and fakes, which is something to be avoided. I think that if you have a decent product, you shouldnt need to slap someone else's ideas and names all over it to sell it.

[Admiral-Badruck]

GWs IP is stone soup IMHO they take ideas from everything... this is not the first time GW has slapped CH with the rubber IP Hammer. I am by no means anti GW but if CH wants to keep making inferior knock-offs they should be abel to do so... I just wish they would come out with some that I could use. GW works hard but they are not fooling anyone most of their stuff is taken from some other game or some other movie. there really is not a lot they can say is theirs and theirs alone. What are they worried about. what is next are places like Micro arts studio and Pig Iron going to get hit because the make cool models that could be part of the game... FW makes resin bases for dreadnoughts should Dark Art and every other resin base maker be given their own C&D letter in the mail... most of these companies are filling a holes in the GW line... I for one think they are great and will buy what ever I think looks coolest.. in the case of CH I thing there stuff is not as good and the GW stuff so GW is safe but Micro Arts studio is great so if GW wants my money they will have to make a superior product at an affordable price.

a quick look at the stuff it looks just as I thought Cheap knock-offs I would not buy most of this stuff. not over FW

CH Doors set USD$16.00 (for doors!)!.. Versus GBP10.00 (for doors!!!) looks to me like a no brainer... the FW stuff is heaps better than the CH stuff...but either one is a lot to pay for doors that come with your GW rhino in the first place.. I could see if CH was selling them for USD$5.00 but they are not they are just under what the FW stuff is selling for and they are much lower grade... hell I could do better than the CH stuff with some plastcard, some dinosaur bones from 100yen and a bit of green stuff..

"Chapterhouse Studios LLC has no affiliation with the Games Workshop. Space Marines, Imperial Fist, Blood Ravens, Soul Drinkers, Deathwatch, Dark Angels, Iron Snakes, Luna Wolves and all associated marks, names, races, race insignia, characters, vehicles, locations, units, illustrations and images from the Warhammer 40,000 universe are either ®, TM and/or © Copyright Games Workshop Ltd 2000-2009, variably registered in the UK and other countries around the world. Used without permission. No challenge to their status intended. All Rights Reserved to their respective owners. Throughout our website and miniature catalog these terms are used for identification purposes only."

Im no lawyer but it looks like they are in the clear. guess Ach will have to take a look and let us know if GW truly does have a case..

[Primarch]

Saying "We know that these are copyrighted and mean no harm" and then using them to advertise your own products doesnt mean you can do it. Its like saying "I know murder is wrong, and I dont mean to kill people" then going stalking innocents through the streets with a carving knife. Pig Iron etc, dont use GW terms to advertise their products, CHS does.
When I worked back in the UK, the company I was working for got hit with a cease and desist notice because we were actively advertising products that we were reselling. We would buy them from the supplier and then sell them on at a profit. We just used the other company's name to advertise. This is a big no-no. GW could care less if people were making 28mm scale models or pieces. Its when they advertise their products using the companies names and images that they get all bent out of shape. Lets say that young Timmy buys some resin models for his Space Marines (all rights reserved, we dont mean to steal your ideas) and then chokes to death on one. Which name will be in the news do you think? Trademarks and copyrights exist for more than just making cash.

Whilst GW may "borrow" ideas from other places (Robotic skeletal killing machines, alien races that reproduce through laying their 'genes' in other species etc), all of the GW stuff is its own creation. Nowhere else will you find Space Wolves or Blood Angels. Sure there are lots of "marines in space" kinda stories out there but its the difference between taking a generic concept and fleshing it out in a unique way and simply copy/pasting it onto your own product. Necrons (the warriors) look like the terminator, but they aren't time travelling to kill young kids. Their background is unique to the 40k setting.

[me_in_japan]

i agree with prim on this one. chapterhouse have been chancing their arm for years now, and I think GW are perfectly within their rights (legally, and, i reckon, morally) to tell CH to pack it in. You dont see GW sending PP a C&D notice. Why not? cos PP have made their own well designed and unique range of miniatures and a world for them to populate. There are no space marines in Immoren.

ChapterHouse, otoh, are making models specifically for GW's game. So far as I can tell, they ONLY make models for GW games. This is clear IP infringement. GW make miniatures, sure, but at the most basic level their source of income is good ideas. Yes, you can copyright a good idea. That is, fundamentally, what IP law is for. Space Marines were a good idea, copyright GW. Rhino armoured transports were a good idea. They are also copyright GW. note that a generic armoured transport would not be a problem, but thats not what CH make. They make doors for rhinos. They make eldar seer councils. They make tyranid lashwhips. And GW own all of those ideas.

CH studios were skating on thin ice from the get-go, and this was inevitable.

[Admiral-Badruck]

did not know you guys had passed the bar-exame I can't really say much on the matter of the law.. but if the law was on the side of GW they would have shut them down a long time ago...

if Chanel makes a Bag and Shanel makes a bag and they look the same and are named almost the same Chanel can get mad but if they had a case there would not be and Shanel bags.. It happens to every thing and every one.. As long CH house make it clear they are not GW models and does not cast copies of GW/FW models.. it dose not matter how much they look a like. GW will lose there case... Examples Coke / Pepesi look the same taste close to the same and after all is said and done there is nothing they can do to stop them...

Car parts that are made to fit on a Ford doe not have to built by Ford... unless CH pack there models in GW boxes they are not going to have to do anything different. Fair or not is not the questions.

[Mike the Pike]

IMHO I don't think CH have a leg to stand on.

This is not someone running a non-profit Forum using a couple of images from GW here and there. This is two guys making money using W's IP, really quite blatantly. I think it is not so much that they are making the parts, it's the fact that they are using GW's trademarks etc to advertise them. As has already been stated, the fact that they are inferior products (but strangely no cheaper) also hurts GW.

BTW It might be OK to make a crappy copy of a CHANEL bag and put a SHANEL on it, but as soon as you put a fake Chanel label on it, much the same as CH are doing with their advertising, then it is totally illegal. Mind you, why are we arguing with a guy whose very avatar is a pirate?

P.S. The CH studios are in the wrong party's law credentials are at least as trustworthy as the Madmiral's English qualifications.


Edit: If you take a look at the Ch site now http://chapterhousestudios.com/webshop/home a lot of the GW trademarks are gone and/or have been acknowledged with an (R). Some still remain though. There is also a very large disclaimer' at the bottom of the page. Interesting.

[Admiral-Badruck]

looks like they are getting punked... but I figure it is a very sad day when they go under...

[Mike the Pike]

looks like they are getting punked... but I figure it is a very sad day when they go under...

Huh? Weren't you the one who was complaining about paying comparable-to-GW prices for an inferior product?

[me_in_japan]

whether theyre gonna get nobbled legally speaking is not something im qualified to comment on, but i think theyre doing wrong morally. I read in an interview with some arty person from GW a while back that the big decisions are all made with a view to keeping the company as financially healthy as possible. Now ok, this provides a nice bonus for the CEO, but it also provides jobs for thousands and thousands of people. Yes, that many. If this two man operation is watering down the quality of GW's reputation (and they are - you and I know the difference between GW and CHS, but how many mums of gamer-kids do?) then overall GW is losing out. CHS are not a "rival" company. Theyre a parasite company which cannot exist without GW putting in all the work to develop the IP and design the base look of the models. Without GW CHS are nothing, and that is why I think GW have the right to tell em to stop stealing their IP.

[Spevna]

whether theyre gonna get nobbled legally speaking is not something im qualified to comment on, but i think theyre doing wrong morally. I read in an interview with some arty person from GW a while back that the big decisions are all made with a view to keeping the company as financially healthy as possible. Now ok, this provides a nice bonus for the CEO, but it also provides jobs for thousands and thousands of people. Yes, that many. If this two man operation is watering down the quality of GW's reputation (and they are - you and I know the difference between GW and CHS, but how many mums of gamer-kids do?) then overall GW is losing out. CHS are not a "rival" company. Theyre a parasite company which cannot exist without GW putting in all the work to develop the IP and design the base look of the models. Without GW CHS are nothing, and that is why I think GW have the right to tell em to stop stealing their IP.

Did you buy an official Apple iPhone cover for your iPhone? As far as I can see, CH are just producing buts that can be added to GW stuff that you already own. I agree that they are taking the mick by using GW images to advertise and sell their stuff and could/should get in trouble for it. But as long as they are making stuff that is designed to be added to GW stuff, I fail to see the problem.