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I like this mission but I have noticed that there are lot of ties I remember the last time I won against Mike the Pike, he lost it... I have lost it once if memory serves me right it was to the current "Champion" MIJ...almost 3 years ago.

The Question is... Is Roll Dice and Tie and accurate nick name/assessment for this mission?

Admiral-Badruck wrote:I like this mission but I have noticed that there are lot of ties I remember the last time I won this Mike the Pike lost this to... I have lost it once if memory serves me right it was to the current "Champion" MIJ...

The Question is... Is Roll Dice and Tie and accurate nick name/assessment for this mission?

If you've lost it once, how many times have you won it? Once? Twice?
Its possible to tie on any objective mission. I've tied before on multiple objective missions and I have often tied on this one. Kill points are harder to tie on, especially with certain armies/lists. (too many KP or units which are hard to get KP from).

With the C and C mission, its important to be mobile and fairly aggressive with your movement in the second half of the game, or at least have something that can zip onto the objective in the last turn if you get desperate. (Thats not a strategy you should consider for winning from the start of the game in my opinion).

It is harder to win C and C compared to the other missions because both objectives are going to be well protected from the start and there are only two of them which limits the ways you can achieve victory. Basically if you are getting a draw on all your C and C games, you need to work harder.

The trick is to hold your own and contest your opponent's objective. this is not too hard with a few fast skimmers. (or failing that, a persistant land raider or two)

Really this is the best you guys can come up with... Prime says "Work harder" and MIJ says "fast skimmers and Landraiders..." I am sure glad they have enough time to write about the rumors about 6 ed.. but cant come up with a decent stratagem for wining the C and C mission. Dose the Mighty Voss or Mike the Eldar-head have any thoughts on this..

Admiral-Badruck wrote:Really this is the best you guys can come up with... Prime says "Work harder" and MIJ says "fast skimmers and Landraiders..." I am sure glad they have enough time to write about the rumors about 6 ed.. but cant come up with a decent stratagem for wining the C and C mission. Dose the Mighty Voss or Mike the Eldar-head have any thoughts on this..

Its difficult to write a catch-all strategy that covers every conceivable way that this mission could play out. What's your solution, whine about how it's too easy to tie? Instead of asking for advice why not post up your own thoughts on how to deal with 1/3 of the games you will play? Instead of complaining about the responses you get, why not offer some of your own pearls of wisdom?
There is a perfectly valid strategem for winning the C&C mission. Control more objectives than your opponent at the end of the game. How you reach this goal will be largely determined by set-up, army composition, your opponent's army composition and any number of random dice rolls, not least of which is the roll to determine the final turn of the game. There are numerous tactics you can use to take the enemy objective including (but not limited to) rushing troops onto it in the final turn, deepstriking, outflanking, infiltrating, and marching units across the board. You can also deny the objective to your opponent by killing all his troops, or scouring it clean of units with long range weapons fire. At the same time, defending your own objective is vital. You need to have a scoring unit on it at the end of the game. This can be achieved by having a very tough unit begin the game nearby, bringing on units from reserve, rushing troops in on the last turn and more besides. For Tyranids you can keep a Tervigon nearby (if you have one) and use it to produce new units in the later stages of the game allowing you to hold it. If you play Necrons you can teleport a scoring unit using a monolith (if you have one) onto an objective. If you play as a marine army, a unit of scouts with stealth (if you have any) can be tough to shift, as can scoring units of terminators with Storm Shields (if you have any).

Do you see where this is going?

I am the one asking the question. If I knew how to do it I would not be asking for ideas.

The biggest problem is that if you do not want to loose your can almost always pull a tie.. unless you flub a roll or just forget to go for the goal. even an army with no scoring units can pull a tie out of this mission. while I do not see ties as the worst thing or even a bad thing I have heard a lot of talk about how this mission is a waist of time if you like to win.

How many times have any of you guys won this mission if memory serves you right..

Several times, though I have also tied and lost it several times as well.
I have won it through the following tactics:
Tabled my opponent.
Killed everything that could hold their objective and could get within range to contest mine.
I dont recall ever having won through holding both objectives.
I have tied due to the game ending at a time that didnt suit me (ie. it ended on turn 5 and I needed 1 more turn OR it ended on turn 7 and my opponent managed to grab an objective back).
I have also tied due to neither player having any scoring units left.
I have lost the game due to my opponent holding their own objective and killing all my units which could hold mine or contest theirs.

One game does spring to mind as a good example. I played against Dungeon Lord's Tzeentch Marines. He managed to run a lone marine across the table for 3 turns evading every shot to reclaim his own objective before tank shocking my last scoring unit off my objective.

So good advice to win: Put your objective on the second floor of a building. Dont have any troops on the ground floor.

I guess this is a bit better advice...

I guess sometimes it is about who has troops left.. and who is troop less on turn 5.. if it ends on turn 5 and one player is with out troops but the other is out of position it is still a draw.. just too easy to pull a draw in a competitive game.. unless you table your opponent. ouch not a nice thing to do...in a friendly game so now you are playing for a draw again..

Admiral-Badruck wrote:I guess this is a bit better advice...

I guess sometimes it is about who has troops left.. and who is troop less on turn 5.. if it ends on turn 5 and one player is with out troops but the other is out of position it is still a draw.. just too easy to pull a draw in a competitive game.. unless you table your opponent. ouch not a nice thing to do...in a friendly game so now you are playing for a draw again..

Or take more troops. Some armies do better at this than others of course, (IG), but if you're showing up to a game with only 2 scoring units you're going to have a hard time of it.

agreed with Prim. 2 scoring units in 40k is asking for trouble. Id say 3 is your minimim with a fast army that can move things around to where they need to be, and 4 for treadhead armies. I used to play 2 units of troops all the time, and I used to lose all the time. Now with 10DA in a serpent, a Falcon with DAVU, and a couple of units of jetbikes I find myself winning a lot more. The 10 DA in the serpent are actually the first of these units to get dropped in lower points cost games, because the falcon has an alternate purpose (killing stuff) and teh jbikes take up far less points and can scoot about just as fast.

Ive also lost this mission many, many times because it finished on turn 5. I now tend to play this scenario for a turn 5 finish, and if it drags on, attempt to cling on to whatever Ive managed to grab.

Tank shocking/assault pulling units off objectives is also a very, very useful tactic in this mission.