Building the Perfect Chaos Marine Army

[Admiral-Badruck]

What makes a good Chaos Marine Army?

I love Chaos Marines almost as much as I love orks.. Many people have said that the current Dex is a bottom teir or low mid tier army... I would like to discuss what makes them so bad... as can see nothing but win coming out of this very cool amy...

lets talk the Good the Bad and the Ugly about these guys...

[Primarch]

Firstly its TIER. As in level, not Tear as in the water that comes out of your eyes as your army gets curbstomped, or Tear as in what space wolves do when they hit a tau infantry squad.

The Chaos Marine dex is very good. It has specialist troops for dealing with different threats, one of the best psychic powers in the game, good heavy support choices which are amazingly versatile. Many people slate it on forums because they no longer get their iron warrior's basilisk for their 4th heavy support slot. Boo hoo. I'd take cheaper termies with melta guns any day.

My one and only complaint about the Codex CSM is that those cool bat wing like backpacks on the possessed dont do anything. I'd love to see a squad of bat marines flying round.

[me_in_japan]

@primarch - I'd advise giving up on correcting Badruck's spelling now, lest ye be condemned to perpetual correction. I know. I tried.

re: CSM dex: The dex itself is not bad. It suffers from being very no-special-rules. The designer actually said he deliberately avoided having special rules, and tried to differentiate the various troops by having one or two points of stat difference. Apparently he doesnt like GWs current tactic of super-powering every new codex that comes out. While this is an admirable design philiosphy, it only works if everybody does it. Unfortunately they dont, and the CSM, potentially (and fluff-wise) the most varied army in the game ended up...dull.

Sorry CSM, but it had to be said. Although theyre not the weakest army in the game, they are really, really generic. You cant run a viable power-specific army. What the heck is with that? What happened to The Lost and The Damned? Slaves to Darkness? They cant get a bunch of stuff they should be able to get (drop pods, not-insane dreadnaughts, bonuses for power-based squad numbers, power specific daemons (now THAT was a pure marketing move if ever there was one), tech priests (i.e. dark admech), mutations, hordes of human minions, etc. Some of their potentially coolest troops are poo. Possessed spring to mind. They suck so bad. There are also wierd anti-fluff anomalies. Nurgle bikers, for example. T6 they may be, but who ever heard of a nurgle biker? Also, the slaanesh marine models are crap. Bring back proper noise marines with geetars and high heels. That was a cool mini.

Finally, I'd like to add my voice to Stu's: whats with the possessed winged backpack? its cool. Why cant you get bat-troops?

These are my thoughts on the CSM codex. Rules wise, its not varied enough. Fluff wise, its crap. Its not a CSM codex at all. Its a Black Legion codex. Imagine if the only codex for SM was Codex:Ultramarines, and you were expected to make a space wolves army by taking lots of assault troops and painting em blue-grey? Thered be riots in GW stores across the land. Yet the expect all the CSM players to make do with a generic, mixed CSM army list. Poo, I say. Poo, Poo, Poo

[Admiral-Badruck]

I have to agree with MIJ for this one... it seems like this dex went in the opposite direction to the rest of the Codexes that followed... to my knowledge there are no unlocks in it and there are no special rules... with such a potential I really can understand why... this Happened... I really hope to see Codex World Eaters of Codex Death Guard or hell Codex traitor legion... would all be fine with me.. from a marketing stand point they could sell a lot more Drop pods Chaos Marines could take them... and Chaos Jet Bikes would be cool as well...

[Primarch]

True, there are no unlockable builds here and no, you can't do legion specific without giving up something.
But hang on. Of the 9 traitor legions only 4 had specific gods. Alpha Legion, Black Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors and Word Bearers are undivided. So the dex caters to more than 50% of the legions... And isnt it possible to give all those non-god specific units a piece of wargear that makes them god specific?

The argument that because they dont get the same gear as regular marines (dreads, drop pods etc) would seem to make them less generic. Vanilla marines dont get IG backup included let alone daemons. Granted you lost the daemons from your dex, but that was like 12 units which was enough to form the core of another dex. Now your book is Chaos Space Marines rather than Chaos. Weren't you just complaining about loyalists getting more than one book. If you want to run Lost and the Damned, use the IG book. Thats pretty much what they are. Hell, if you read the Gaunt's Ghosts stuff, the Blood Pact are on a par with any imperial force.
Marines have access to tech priests. Do you ever see anyone playing them? No, cos they are pants.

Overall the book is good, and for those of you whining that you cannot play fluffy god specific forces, I will point out the mono-slaanesh player, the mono-tzeentch player and the mono-nurgle player who we all know very well. Everytime I play against CSM I have a tough time.

Now I'm going to take my Dark Angels codex and cry.

[Admiral-Badruck]

I guess complaining about a great dex is not the best way to build a better Chaos Marine army... lets go thought the units...

Starting with HQ...

Post away guys...

[Primarch]

Abaddon - So long as he isnt stabbing himself in the face (he likes doing that) he's one of the hardest HQ choices around.
Ahriman - Cries when he sees Mephiston and Njal and Tigerius. Gets envious of Psychic Dreadnoughts. Pleased that he is a better psyker than anything the Tau can field.
Kharn is nails,
Lucius, Huron and Typhus all seem like good choices.
The Daemon Prince is an awesome choice.
The regular lord is cheaper than a marine captain and the sorcerer seems good too.

As I said, its a good codex.

Hmm, now I'm tempted to start playing CSM......

[Admiral-Badruck]

Join the dark side we have cookies and punch...

Kharn is good but what makes him really good... and a rules question can he hit vehicles on a 2 plus... or is it the same as any of the unit attacking a vehicle...

[Primarch]

Join the dark side we have cookies and punch...

Kharn is good but what makes him really good... and a rules question can he hit vehicles on a 2 plus... or is it the same as any of the unit attacking a vehicle...

Hmm, a quick look at the GW FAQ states that he only hits units with a WS on a 2+
So dreads yes, rhinos no.

[Admiral-Badruck]

I will be taking him in the CSM version of my World Eaters army!

I guess the Daemon Prince would be good too...