Death Star units

[Admiral-Badruck]

very true

that is why I take my own Death Star unit every game normally it does ok but some times it does nothing and every so often it takes me to the top...

[job]

very true

that is why I take my own Death Star unit every game normally it does ok but some times it does nothing and every so often it takes me to the top...

Well, I guess that is the trade off. Sometimes, you've got the biggest baddest space station in the galaxy, and sometimes you get out classed.

Anyway, personally, I am more about destroying these units then trying to entirely emulate them. Dwarves seem to be more of build a defensive position, and slug-it-out with shooting and combat-type.

[Admiral-Badruck]

this is true... I guess with Dwarves you need to do lots of shooting and hope you kill enough to make it so your dwarves can kill the bad guys when they get in to you...

[Colonel Voss]

Dude, your knights alone were nearly 25% of the army. If you weren't intending them to be "Death Star" what were you intending them to be? With your lord they must be nearing half your points.

You might also remember I did try to plug a cannonball through your whole line, including your lord when you exposed their flank, but the shot managed to bounce right over your entire line without hitting anything.

Dragon slayer is not terrible with the extra strength, but check out the numbers on the rest of the slayers. S3 is not going to wound or penetrate your 1+ armor. And really, all you have to do is challenge the DS to neutralize him. He's unlikely to survive the initiative and attack advantages your lord has.

Also Iron Breakers and armor is not the trick to surviving. Gromil armor means only a difference between 5+ and 4+ in the current army book. While nobody seems to dismiss IB, I have hardly seen many voices praising them.
Additionally, I don't recall the flank thing being an issue against your army, Voss. Your knights ruined the party by bearing down from the front.

Instead, I've been seeing far more support for hammerers. They do look like a pretty good investment, only riding an extra two points above an equally armed dwarf warrior, but having the stubborn rule, +1 WS and +1 strength. That's -3 modifier to armor. Not bad.

Yeah and when I played dwarfs I decimated a unit of 6 chaos knights in one turn of shooting (and let's not talk about the poor bretonni charge that wasn't) . If you did that to me, then I'd've hit with only 4 knights and would have struggled uphill pretty hard. Knights at 5 or 6 are really hit or miss as your opponent is more than able to drop at least some of them and then you hit with one or two for little effect. I tried 10 to see if I could run the gauntlet this time.

Iron Breakers have gromril+a shield. In HtH this is a 3+ with a 6+ ward save. Iron breakers have heavy armor and can take a shield for shooting. In HtH you get a 5+ with no ward but stubborn. Against my knights hitting first I would hit 3+ (-1 WS), Wound 3+ (enscrolled weapons) and you would have no armor saves. We'd be able to munch you pretty good before you got to hit back. Ironbreakers would at least have a 5+/6+ save giving you some hope of a dwarf surviving.

Slayers are night in that they can do either 2 hand weapons or 1 great weapon your choice. And they will at least match my T level (up to 6) so hit on a 4+ (-1 save)with two hand weapons and 3+ (-2 save) for double. Further had they hit my general, they would get 4+ wither way as well (-2 save either or). And here is the kicker, they won't run meaning my knights are stuck there for you to counter charge for as long as one slayer draws breath.

As for flank, I wasn't talking about your flanks, I was talking about my flanks. Your anvil units have to take the charge and hold while a harder hitting unit countercharges in the flank. With your quarellers, I knocked through them so fast, you stood no chance of hitting my flank with any other unit (even though they would have been a poor choice, the thunderers go here given your deployment), they just crumbled like rag dolls. Iron Breakers with the right runes or slayers would have taken it and still been there (hammerers too but the attrition rate would be horrible for you). Once you have the unit tied up, hit it with the heavy hitting but less armor save unit in the flank. Hammerers are perfect for this. This way I can't get many attacks against that weaker unit while you can go to town against me.

Also if we have a 1+ save, a roll of 1 still fails in armor save.

And you'll have to excuse me. I grew up in the old 4th Edition book and maybe my thoughts are outdated, but I wouldn't count out a lot of the units you've been telling me everyone says are bad. I can see some pretty nice uses for them.

[Mike the Pike]

The solution to all Death Star Units is, of course.....

[job]

@ Voss: fair points all of them. I still like Hammerers over the TS and IB. (I love the models for the IB ) The TS make an argument with their special rules, fearlessness and the fact they are only a point more then the dwarves with GW. But, the IB would serve poorly as either a hammer or anvil. They aren't fearless or particularly high on LD (comparatively to other dwarves). I don't think they would have faired all that much better on their own receiving a charge.

As for Hammer and Anvil tactics. I think part of the deal is having those units in proximity. The way Dawn Attack worked out, I had no opportunity for that. Part of my battle plan involves the general and the battle standard extending their influence to other units.

The solution to all Death Star Units is, of course.....

YOU REBEL SCUM!

The Dwarves are staunch allies of the Empire!

[Colonel Voss]

IB unit w/ rune of determination and rune of battle. +1 CR and roll break on 1D6 only.

[job]

Yeah, I use RoD on my main Dwarf warrior unit. But that would be one expensive unit. 300+ points. The hammerers would do it for cheaper. The stubborn rule providing steadfast plus the Lord and the BS, is going to make that unit pretty much impossible to break in straight-up fight.

[kojibear]

Erm...(puts a hand half up in the air), I'd just like to point out that Wood Elves don't really have a Death Star and quite frankly I am jealous.

I kind of mentioned this in my other post, but being competitive certainly makes for a fun challenge. But if we are all tearing our nose hairs out (ouch!) because we are frustrated about death star units and clever tricks with magic items and the like, we should take a break every now and then.

Try both opponents taking a fluffy list, use all those weird scenery rules or make up your own. Give each other time to recover from the tense, tongue biting action of a competitive game, and enjoy the hilarity and imagination of a fluff game.

Like...

"Sir?"
"What is it, soldier?"
"That bush over there."
"What about it?"
"Err...it just ate george, sir."

Or perhaps...

"I think this mountain 'ere be a fine place for a cannon me lads!"
(Head nod eagerly in agreement)
"Right, now what is the first thing we do when we set up a cannon? Come on lads! First dwarf to answer gets half me share of the first round of grog!"
(A cacophony of voices fill the air)
"Eh...you there...err...Bouldershoulder."
"Well, sir the first thing we do is take a good swig of grog!"
(Laughter)
"Heh heh, good answer lad. But not the right one. Nope nope. The first thing you ironheads ought to do is...Yes, Stoneball, what is it?"
"Well, err...maybe I just 'as meself a wee bit too much grog at breakfast, but err...I'd swear that rock just winked at me?"
(Heads turn in the direction of Stoneball's stubby finger.)
"As I was saying lads, the first think a good dwarf ought to do when setting up a cannon, is to check that the mountain he be on is not a dragon."
(Heads now swing back towards the Captain)
"Yep, yep. Dragon."
(Quizzical stares)
"Sigh...DRAGON. You stupid ruddy wine drinkers! DRAGON!"
(Frantic movements ensue as dwarves strive to flee what is now evidently a dragon's back. Weapons forgotten, only the beer keg is saved.)

[job]

Dwarves would never dare even sip on "grog". We've got no sea legs and anyplace that won't support a man in full armor and has no gold and metals to be mined (never mind rusts iron) is no place for a dwarf!

No, for some hearty ale, or a fine beer a dwarf might do quite a bit of heavy labor.