Rule Addressment

[job]

Well, it seems a bunch of rule issues came up between Jus and I during the last game. I think almost all were legit questions, so here are a few I can recall.

1) "Only one banner bonus to combat resolution" - is this right? I was re-reading the rulebook. On page 52 there is an entry for "standard". On page 53 there is an entry for "Battle Standard" which goes on to say that the BS's +1 to resolution is cumulative to the regular standard. Page 107 seems to confirm this again.
Am I reading this wrong? It seems like you get only one basic banner bonus, but you can get a separate one for the BS on top of it.

2) "Do you get a 'Watch out, sir ' save if the cannonball strikes down the flank of a unit that has only one rank with a character in that rank?
p. 93 says that if there are fewer then 5 rank and file stands left, then the model can no longer take its 2+.
On p. 96, 97, the rules say that a lone character with a friendly unit in 6" gets a 4+ save. Also this needs 5 or more rank and file units.

3) Can you move your back, incomplete rank of models to whichever file you want to get your attacks where you want them placed?

4) IF you charge an opponent, wipe them out entirely, do you get a free reform?
p. 57 says that a unit that wins, and successfully restrains, can make a reform move.
p. 58 says that a unit the has 'overrun' an opposing unit 'can' make a 2d6" move straight forward.

Sorry, maybe there were others, but I'm tired. I'm interested in what the group has to say.

[Admiral-Badruck]

number one you are right... found out today playing MTPike

2 looks like you have that one right as well...

3 I could not tell you...

4 looks like you do get a free reform.

glad you put them up on the forum...

[Primarch]

1. Unit standard gives you plus 1 to combat resolution, Battle standard gives an additional plus 1 to resolution. The "Only one standard" rule is if you have multiple units with standards in combat.

2. If you hit a unit with a cannonball and the rank you hit only has characters in it, then they are all entitled to a Look Out Sir save IF the unit has 5 or more rank and file models left in it. If the unit DOESN'T have 5 rank and file models then no saves. Only solo characters get the Look Out Sir roll from nearby units. So if the unit is ONLY characters and 4 or less R&F models, then they are all getting hit. (Units of characters without support are a bad idea).

3. Yes, see diagram 3 on page 49. However you have to move them all the same direction. If the unit is hit on 2 flanks, the small rank can only go to 1 side, they cant split up.

4. If you win a combat and the enemy flees, you must test to pursue, if you pass you may reform. If you wipe the enemy out, you may overrun (page 58) OR you may choose to reform (page 57). You dont have to overrun unless you have a rule specifically saying you have to.

[job]

Thanks for the responses. I just hope that getting any rules agreements posted will help make some future games go more smoothly in the future (without all the book consultation).

And Prim, maybe I should clarify on #3: When Jus attacked my Quarrallers and Thunders he hit both units. Then, the following turn on the exposed flank of the thunders, he piled in his skeletons. At this point, I wanted to shift the remaining three 'supporting rank' thunders to the other end so they could strike the skeletons rather then the terribly tough Wights.
Is this legal? Actually, I think diagram three addresses flank attacks and bringing models into contact. But can rear ranks be shifted from side to side to adjust where their supporting attacks go?

I would not be surprised by any answer.

[Primarch]

And Prim, maybe I should clarify on #3: When Jus attacked my Quarrallers and Thunders he hit both units. Then, the following turn on the exposed flank of the thunders, he piled in his skeletons. At this point, I wanted to shift the remaining three 'supporting rank' thunders to the other end so they could strike the skeletons rather then the terribly tough Wights.
Is this legal? Actually, I think diagram three addresses flank attacks and bringing models into contact. But can rear ranks be shifted from side to side to adjust where their supporting attacks go?

I would not be surprised by any answer.

If they were already in contact with the wights (ie the wights were on one flank), then no. If they weren't, (ie the wights were in front of you) then yes. You cant move models out of combat with one unit to attack a more favourable unit.

[job]

Probably a fair ruling there.

[Admiral-Badruck]

Probably a fair ruling there.

Does this mean there is still a question in the core rules? If it is the rule then there is not ruling is there?

[Primarch]

There are only 2 ways to move units once they are locked in combat. One is by the Incomplete Ranks rule (P49) if fighting to the flank. The second is by a reform. You cannot reform if you are in combat with enemy units on 2 facings. (page 55, last paragraph), but if they are both on the same facing then you can reform using the rules on p55 so long as you dont take models out of base contact with an enemy unit. This would allow you to allocate supporting hits to a different unit, though you obviously cant do this in the first round of combat. The enemy are hardly going to wait until you're ready before they charge.

[Primarch]

This thread is now going to be used for all resolved rules questions that come up during the course of play.

I will kick things off with some of the questions I got asked at the Orc-tober Fest event.

How do multiple charges work?

Read page 23 under "Multiple charges"

Can I charge if there is a second unit I might run into?

Read page 18 under "Charging more than 1 unit" and the second paragraph of page 22 under "Unusual situations".

How many models can assault a warmachine?

Read page 110, second and third paragraphs under "War machines in close combat".

But what if they are skirmishers?

Read page 110, second and third paragraphs under "War machines in close combat".

How do I allocate wounds for the Unstable special rule?

Read page 78 under the "Unstable" rule.

If I have more than 2 characters in a unit can I use the make way rule to move them around in combat?

Read page 100 under the "Make way" rule, specifically line 9.

Well, I for one am glad we got those tricksy, vague rules all sorted out for once and for all.

[job]

Wow... [er]

Here's a real question: How does the "crumble" rule read? Do you just level the "unstable" rule on the entire unit? I never got an answer from anybody.

This is a something I was told, but I can't find anything in the book suggesting it is correct:
If you are attacked in the flank along with the front, you lose your second rank attacks against the unit in the front arc. (We aren't talking about attacks against the flanking unit.)
-I was told this and I accepted it for the game, but now I've been looking for any reference to it.

Also one other shocking thing:
When firing a war machine, it must be entirely moved and aimed in the movement phase.
-I was at first shocked by this, but reading both the rules on war machines and the explanation in the cannon section, it seems to be the correct ruling. I also checked on warseer, and the members of the thread came to the very same conclusion. I think this is very interesting and will change how I have to play slightly.