The End Times and Beyond

[DarkElves>All]

I've followed John's (Death Holy Death's) online Warhammer work for a while and am probably looking at his statement from a different angle than the rest of you. I see it as a protest; he had spent a lot of his free time freely advertising and promoting GW -- now that they have essentially downgraded his investment and unsupported his reason for playing, he has hit them where it most hurts --> not in the wallet, but in the PR.

A lot of people are disappointed in the end of Warhammer Fantasy Battle; a passive approach would be to feel a bit aggrieved, and then move on with your day, deciding to play Warmachine or persevere with AoS.

Instead, John took an active approach.

It was an active community approach that led to D&D v5, and it is only an active community approach that will lead to a rebirth of FB, if even in a licensed 3rd party form.

That all said, I can appreciate why others find his destructive actions, and in particular, negative speech, offensive.

[Konrad]

I've followed John's (Death Holy Death's) online Warhammer work for a while and am probably looking at his statement from a different angle than the rest of you. I see it as a protest; he had spent a lot of his free time freely advertising and promoting GW -- now that they have essentially downgraded his investment and unsupported his reason for playing, he has hit them where it most hurts --> not in the wallet, but in the PR.

A lot of people are disappointed in the end of Warhammer Fantasy Battle; a passive approach would be to feel a bit aggrieved, and then move on with your day, deciding to play Warmachine or persevere with AoS.

Instead, John took an active approach.

It was an active community approach that led to D&D v5, and it is only an active community approach that will lead to a rebirth of FB, if even in a licensed 3rd party form.

That all said, I can appreciate why others find his destructive actions, and in particular, negative speech, offensive.

I imagine eventually something like the Necromunda Community Edition will coalesce. And some forum or another will become the hub of all things Fantasy Battle. Don't worry. This isn't 1985 and we are all stuck in our parent's basement with only 2 other geeks to play with. We are now a world spanning community of geeks and our basements are linked to every other basement on the planet. I remember reading somewhere that Gary Gygax was once quoted as saying something to the effect that, "You know, if people find out they really don't need our rulebooks to play these games, we are sunk." There are already 20 years of rules to pick and choose from. Me and some of the guys here on the forum have been playing the hell out of Gorkamorka this past year without any "support" from GW. But, yeah I can understand this guys rage. It's like that time I went and burned all my comic books because the latest incarnation of Justice League really sucks. Okay, I'm joking, I don't read Justice League.

[Lovejoy]

I imagine eventually something like the Necromunda Community Edition will coalesce. And some forum or another will become the hub of all things Fantasy Battle. Don't worry.

Yes, indeed! There'll be 8th players for a long time to come. And Oldhammer is popping now. As for sites for that, there are quite a few, though this is the best:-

http://realmofchaos80s.blogspot.jp/

Even if you only a passing interest in fantasy or the olden days, you'll most likely love what you see there.

This site was a big shove in the back for Mr Spevna and myself, into giving an older, more charming and cumbersome edition a go. We just read up on 3rd ed, and got pdfs, else invested in copies of the orange rulebook, Warhammer Armies etc, and we're away and very excited about it. We are going to get 3rd on the go by Jan.
So. As said previously, Age of Sigmar is a good thing. Not because I intend to play it, but precisely because I don't intend to. The beatings have stopped, and the children are being led out of the cobwebbed basement into the light of a new gaming dawn. People need to think more creatively and make their own fun rather than relying on a single company to do that for them. There are still tons of options for those minis. Exciting times lie ahead.

[The Other Dave]

So I've been reading the rules... (Hey, they're short, I'm at work and trying to avoid actually working.) Somebody correct me if I'm wrong about any of these points.

So heroes and such are just Units with 1 model - they don't join friendly units, and there are no "look out sir" or similar rules, so they can always be targeted independently if in range and LoS of the enemy.

The rules for picking targets suggests that true LoS is used - "if you're unsure, stoop down and get a look from the attacking model" and etc.

If your enemy outnumbers you by models by 33% or more at any point, you can pick a "sudden death" victory condition, completing which will automatically win the game for you. One of these is Assassinate, where the other guy (that is, the one who is doing the outnumbering) picks the model you have to kill.

Relevant points about my army:

Even my toughest character is still just a goblin, and to-hit and wound rolls are all decided by attacking model anyway. But I've got a 5+ save, maybe with a re-roll, and 4 wounds.

All of my army is very short, generally much shorter than any other army, making it possible, with true LoS, to see even a character lurking in the middle ranks of a 50-strong goblin unit - especially if the attacking model has any height to it.

Being goblins, I'm pretty likely to outnumber whoever I fight.

So, what's to prevent this from happening:

Turn 1: My opponent, being outnumbered, declares sudden death, assassinate. I nominate my most-protected character, who is probably (again because of the LoS rules) lurking in the middle of a unit where he'll be harder to target, even though it means he won't be able to fight when it comes to it. My opponent has, say, a couple bolt throwers or a cannon or something on a hill somewhere, with their 36"+ range and ability to see over the intervening goblins, and proceeds to turn my weedy general into a damp smear, winning the game. Heck, this works against other army generals too, since to-hit and wound rolls work the way they do. Other armies' generals might have more wounds or a better save, but a couple of sniping cannons are going to make anyone's day a sad one without too much trouble.

I mean, that's all right there in the rules as written, right?

[Primarch]

Pfft, Skaven can win every game on turn one.

The screaming bell rolls 2d6 in the Hero phase, and depending on your roll, you may dish out more wounds, or move faster. If you roll a 13 you win the game.

13 - Improbable Victory!: Against all probability and reason, you immediately win the battle (and are hereafter branded a cheat – not that that should bother a true skaven general).

This can legitimately be achieved if you use the Bell and Fateweaver apparently.

Hmm, since you're going to be branded a cheat anyway, what's to stop a Skaven player using custom dice, one with only 6's and one with only 7's?

I mean, that's all right there in the rules as written, right?

I think you are being very generous to GW with that statement.

[The Other Dave]

I mean, that's all right there in the rules as written, right?

I think you are being very generous to GW with that statement.

Heh. The "rules" as "written", then?

Also, the investor's report is potentially troubling for 40K fans. http://investor.games-workshop.com/wp-c ... -final.pdf

In particular, the note in "priorities for next year" that a "resetting of the [product] ranges" is in store for this year - "not tweaking here and there but a top-down reassessment". Since Fantasy Battle's just been pretty firmly reset, and the LotR range is being rapidly phased out, that just leaves 40K - anyone want to take bets on an Age-of-Sigmarification? The AoS rules are already essentially 40K-style skirmish rules.