Warhammer - The Old World

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Primarch
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Warhammer - The Old World

Post by Primarch » Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:06 am

Edit - Merged older and newer ToW threads to keep info easy to find.



I didn't see a dedicated thread for this, and since there is a tiny bit more info floating around these days, I figured a place to discuss the subject might be useful.

Back in Nov. 2019, GW announced that they were planning to resurrect the old WFB world.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/201 ... warhammer/

Then, in March and May 2020, we got some previews of a Kislev army being designed for the project.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/202 ... ge-post-2/
https://www.warhammer-community.com/202 ... ge-post-4/

And I didn't see this linked anywhere else, but earlier this month there was a bit of an FAQ on the subject.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/202 ... -answered/

As a TL;DR type summary, TOW is a square-based rank-and-flank game in 28mm.
To flesh that out a bit, the game style looks to be faithful to the old WFB, so existing armies can still be used. The blurb also states that the designers have picked the best bits from previous versions of WFB and added in some new stuff for a 'reinvention' of the game. The setting will also move slightly, being 200 years before the End Times. This allows for more options for the designers, but means that certain named characters won't be around.

Let the idle speculation and wishlisting commence!
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Re: Warhammer - The Old World

Post by Primarch » Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:11 pm

Really? No interest in discussing this? :o

Well, I guess I'll start and if anyone else wants to jump in later, that's fine.

Obviously the game is still a way off, probably a year or two, but I am tentatively interested in what GW do with the game. The recent announcement pretty much confirms that this will be the official 9th edition of the game, even if they aren't calling it that. Same scale, same R'n'F style, and based on (at least in part) previous versions of the rules.

That said, I often found WFB a challenging game to enjoy. 7th edition codex creep led to some armies that were almost impossible to beat, and 8th really encouraged big death-star units. I don't believe for one second that GW can rein in their tendency to make new armies/models more powerful as time goes by.

I'm also more of a fan of rank-and-flank games not having individual casualty removal, and for characters to give command and control bonuses rather than being able to mulch entire units in one turn.

So I'm not really sure why this has caught my attention. Nostalgia perhaps?

Now it's true that no game is ever really balanced, especially one with as many armies and units as WFB. I don't really expect GW (or any company) to ever really achieve that. I do prefer to feel like I have a chance to win, rather than entering a game knowing I will lose because my opponent simply has a better book than me. These days I'm more inclined to build 2 or 3 (or 6) armies for a game to play at home against each other,* thus avoiding meta-chasing, win at all costs, power builds that table the opponent in seconds. If I can find people with a similar attitude to play at the monthly meet-up (post Covid) then so much the better.

Similarly, I'm not one for treating official rules as invoilable scriptures laid down by an omniscient higher being. If I don't enjoy what GW writes, I will either house-rule key points or switch to a different rules system.**

More than anything though, I'm hoping to see a return to more classical WFB minis. (Orcs, not Orruks). Models that I can rank up nicely and create awesome looking games with. Round bases and dynamic models are great for skirmish games, but for a real battle, blocks of infantry marching in lock-step with banners waving are essential. I'm fairly confident that GW will charge modern prices for their new minis, but they are really the only company with a complete model range (troops, monsters, heroes and war machines) in 28mm.*** If the aim is to create a great spectacle on the gaming table, I guess I had better start saving now.



* Yes, I am aware that this is a bit anti-social, but I'd rather player fewer games and enjoy them than grind through more games that are one-sided and not fun. I've done that before.

**And yes, this is even more likely to leave me isolated. My stubborn refusal to play anything past what is essentially 5th edition 40K certainly hasn't gained me a lot of opponents. :lol:

***Except Mantic, but their models look bad.
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Re: Warhammer - The Old World

Post by kojibear » Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:01 am

I started my warhammer fantasy adventure when it was in its 3rd and 4th installments, which was in the early 1990s I think. It was my entry into table top and role playing so it will always hold a special place for me. The Old World was a delightful escape and it had a rich character and stories that other game companies have not been able to replicate . But GW did what Hasbro did to the Transformers when all the kids already had all the toys – they killed everyone off. Although Hasbro at least let Cybertron escape ultimate destruction from the maw of Unicron. The Old World was not so lucky.

Anywho…

As Primarch said the rules were...well...best when a little liberty was applied to make things less stressful, more reasonable and more fun.

Having played games in which individual models were not removed, I must say I prefer it. To spend so much time building and painting miniatures, it is nice to actually see them on the table. The units are supposed to reflect a great number of warriors anyway, many more than what is actually represented on the table. It is also a bit silly to see a single spear elf standing in front of a hoard of 50 skeletons alone. Unit movement trays are my current favorite for this rank and file format, and you can decorate them to boot!

And yes, the power creep, even the size creep, in which characters and heroes got more powerful and larger [and larger and larger] to the point where all you needed was that one character to sweep across the table and slay an army. Again, not really realistic or fun. There needs to be a little risk when Tyrion the hero of the Elves charges those 50 skeletons alone. (Yeah, I guess he could lose to the skeletons rank advantage. However he had the Heart of Averlon to bring him back to life lol )

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Warhammer: The Old World

Post by kojibear » Thu Jan 12, 2023 1:15 am

It looks like GW is letting tid bits out of the bag.

They appear to have found an era they like - and which naturally will allow for more miniature lines 😆

The Empire is fractured and it’s ‘game of thrones’ time as while they bicker amongst themselves a looming threat grows in the North. 😆

https://www.warhammer-community.com/202 ... -that-was/

The Barony of Westerland

Ruled by Elspeth Magritta VI, Westerland is a wealthy province, its merchant-lords grown fat on the trade that flows through Marienburg’s vast harbours.

The Grand County of Osterland

Ruled from the great city of Middenheim by Count Sigismund Ulric, Osterland is home to the Wolf Emperors of the north, fierce devotees of Ulric.

The Principality of Reikland

Occupying the heartland of Sigmar’s Empire, the Reikland is ruled by the pious Prince Wilhelm I of Altdorf, a devout servant of the Empire’s patron deity.


The Grand Duchy of Talabec

The largest and most culturally diverse of the four provinces, Talabec is ruled from the great walled city of Talabheim by Duke Ludwig XII.

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Re: Warhammer: The Old World

Post by me_in_japan » Thu Jan 12, 2023 1:47 am

Sooo...Horus Heresy, in Spaaaaaaaaaaa...

Um

I mean, "Horus Heresy, in...Steeeeaaampuuuuuunk"


Ok, sure. I mean, why not? 4 empire factions doesn't seem like too many, and as long as the other non-human races get enough stuff it should be fine. I see beastmen and chaos in general being mentioned, but what about Skaven, chaos dwarves (dwarves at all, actually) and elves of all stripes? Fimir? Ogres? Etc. Would it be ogre kingdoms at that point, or would it be more old-school mercenary ogres like days of yore?

But yeah, I'm at least vaguely interested in this, for the setting, if not necessarily in buying minis to play with.
current (2019) hobby interests
eh, y'know. Stuff, and things

Wow. And then Corona happened. Just....crickets, all the way through to 2023...

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Re: Warhammer: The Old World

Post by Primarch » Thu Jan 12, 2023 10:59 pm

In one of GW's earlier articles, they discussed Kislev, though that is another human (and Empire adjacent) faction. I have heard rumours that the starter set may be Brettonia Vs. Tomb Kings, but that could be just wishlisting. Neither of those armies made the jump to AoS and have been OOP for a long time now.

I'm pretty sure that they will include most of the original armies in the lore, but rebooting everything will probably take some time model-wise. That said, some WFB armies moved over to AoS almost fully intact, so could easily jump back to ToW. Skaven, Daemons, Lizardmen, Ogres and Dark Elves still have large chunks of their range available in plastic. Vampire Counts got a large range refresh, but most of the new models are just glow-ups of older ones (e.g. Zombies and Skeletons).

As ToW is a rank-and-flank style game, minis are going to be mounted on square bases, etc, etc it does impose some design limits on minis that the more skirmish style of AoS happily ignores. Take the new Chaos Warriors, they are not going to rank up easily. So those WFB armies that did get updated to AoS may not be backwards compatible. Though now that I think about it, AoS largely added new armies rather than update old ones. You can still play WFB style dwarves in AoS, but they were never updated, simply replaced by Fire Dwarves and Sky Dwarves. Old school Goblins are still playable, but their new minis are all Squigs, all the time. Looking at it through the lens of ToW, I think they made new ranges to appeal to the new players coming in to AoS, while keeping WFB legacy armies playable, (but with no new minis), so that when they did bring WFB back in some form they could release refreshed ranges that all the old grognards would buy. The new models will need to rank up properly though, so the dynamic AoS poses are out I guess.

I think we'll see a few armies introduced in short order, probably a couple of goodies and a couple of baddies. I'd be happy* with Empire, Dwarves, Orcs and Chaos. That would give you a few different playstyles, easy narratives and a great mix of potential minis. I suspect that Empire civil war is to allow for games between similar armies early in the army release cycle.

On top of that, a get-you-by army book for all of the WFB armies would be a great way to get a lot of players back into the game. I don't know if they will do that or not though. The HH update has really dragged its feet over getting non-marine armies updated so far. GW may feel that rules with no minis leads to lost sales revenue as players use old models or alternative minis.

TL;DR - I have no idea what GW will make for ToW, but I'd expect to see a lot of the armies getting all new ranges as they get introduced.



*happy as in 'happy to buy them.'
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Re: Warhammer: The Old World

Post by YellowStreak » Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:47 am

Primarch wrote:
Thu Jan 12, 2023 10:59 pm
Take the new Chaos Warriors, they are not going to rank up easily.
Maybe they will on the new 33mm square bases they're probably introduce...? ;)
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Re: Warhammer - The Old World

Post by Balloonacorn » Fri Jan 13, 2023 1:40 pm

I am not a big fan of the Empire. Thank goodness for the misunderstood races.

I ran across this article summarizing all races announced so far:

https://www.wargamer.com/warhammer-the- ... lease-date
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Re: Warhammer - The Old World

Post by Konrad » Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:10 am

I have no realistic desire to get into a new GW game. The Frazetta/Bisley/Chaos Maurader Army with a War Mammoth centerpiece is there with, "Got to get me a Nissan Fairlady one of these days. Those are pretty cars." The car would would be cheaper probably. :D
It will be fun to see what they can do with the old aesthetic now that they have all these new production methods. Good to see them get back to their roots. The Age of Sigmar stuff can be cool, don't get me wrong, but it's sort of left a "Phantom Menace" feeling in my mouth.
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Re: Warhammer - The Old World

Post by kojibear » Tue May 23, 2023 1:11 pm

Hi everyone 👋

GW have released the main armies they want to revolve their narrative around in the Old World setting.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/202 ... -revealed/

Unfortunately some armies won’t be getting much love and attention, but they will receive free pdf rules on release. But whoever said WE can’t just give them some good ol’ lovin’. Anywho, that is the latest from the GW press.

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