A murmur of a whisper of a possibility?

[Primarch]

So as you may or may not know, I spend a lot of my free time reading through various rumour threads elsewhere on the interweb, trying to find any interesting bits of news to keep you entertained, (and also because I like rumours).

One rumour that I came across last night got me thinking and I'd like to get your opinions on this too. First off, let me state that I have no reason to believe that it is true, the person who posted it doesnt have a reputation for being 'in the know,' but its just that the idea caught my attention.

Codex: World Eaters.
Thats what this guy was talking about. The way he described it was "still a long way off," and given that GW have a ton of books to get through first this could mean at least a couple of years minimum. Anyway, he then went on to say that GW wanted to do a series of books for the big 4 chaos legions, World Eaters, Death Guard, Emperor's Children and Thousand Sons, with Codex: Chaos Space Marines being the catch all book for the undivided forces.

This raises my first question: 5 Chaos Codexes, good idea or bad?

Some people loved the idea and some people complained about how it would lead to longer update cycles. Now GW have been pretty decent about updating some of the older books recently but still only manage 2 or 3 a year. Adding 4 more books would lead to an extra year or so between a full update.

And this is my second question: Do we still need updates?

Sure, older books (Eldar, Tau, Necrons, Witch Hunters, Black Templars and perhaps Dark Angels) need to be brought into line with the newer books, but generally speaking (ignoring IG melta-veteran-chimera spam etc), most of the current books are fairly balanced with each other. People can cheese them out, but a balanced list from any of the 5th ed. books should be able to hold its own against any other 5th ed book.
Whilst I love buying new toys and getting new rules/units to mess around with, are they necessary? Lets take a look at the Marine book. It was the first 'true' 5th edition codex. (orks are 5th I feel, but came out just before the edition change). All of the models are available except for the conversion beamer option for techmarines. All they metal/plastic hybrid kits are gone and the metals that do remain are unlikely to be changed to plastic (though a plastic chaplain/librarian kit has been mentioned elsewhere). The rules are balanced and the inclusion of Chapter Tactics allows for GW to create new chapters with the addition of a single model. Forge World's recent Badab War books are a good example of this.
So, if the newer books were of a similar level and marines remain a playable army, why update them? The primary reason is to make people buy new models, but marine players already have everything. A codex update would need to include a lot of new stuff to justify it from a selling kits point of view.

So, onto my third and final question. What do you want to see from GW in the future?

P.s. I am SOOOO looking forward to the day when Badruck buys a Blood Angels army to proxy as World Eaters.

[Spevna]

I think that all Codices should follow a similar pattern.

Space Marine codex: Certain HQ choices open up certain FOC choices to enable you to create different chapters.
Eldar/Craftworlds
Tau/Septs
Chaos Space Marines/Legions
Orks/Clans

All of the armies would work with that format.

If GW did that, I would consider buying from them again.

[ashmie]

Question1 :

Yeah it might be too much 5 chaos codex. In the view of sales and getting the teenagers who have just got involved to spend their parents cash, GW are presuming everyone new to the hobby will be wanting to play as a faction of chaos I guess.
In my humble opinion I think they would make more sales through supporting the codex they already have and sticking with the classics. It keeps everyone happy, current veterans and new players alike.
It's like being in a supermarket in Europe or back home, trying to decide what pasta sauce to buy and ending up with a headache before you can decide. More choice could equal less sales or just a quick sales hit and lots of kids with half painted armies because they couldn't finish painting them before the next codex came out.
I guess it could work either way in that respect. Tricky.
What annoys me is I got back into the hobby in 2004/5 and since then the Orc army book for fantasy has changed twice soon to be a third time as have the rules changed 3 times. 40k not so bad only twice I think since 2008.
Much as I love the games, it puts me off collecting when they do this as they obviously aren't interested in longevity from their consumers. 3 years tops right?
That said if you can keep a good stock of miniatures and adjust them to different codex you're doing well I reckon.

Question 2: No we don't need constant updates. If it 'aint broke don't fix it. Or as my Grandmother used to say, anything mechanical, give it a good bash! No seriousley we don't need all those updates. by doing that GW makes itself look like a baby that can't make up it's mind and it can't be content with the rules it originally puts in place.

What do I want to see from GW in the future?

A return to that passion for gaming they once had. Make it possible for fantasy armies who don't have a lot of minis to compete with armies that do. Make terrain more of a realistic feature in 40k. Bring back overwatch rule!

[Primarch]

Question1 :
What annoys me is I got back into the hobby in 2004/5 and since then the Orc army book for fantasy has changed twice soon to be a third time as have the rules changed 3 times. 40k not so bad only twice I think since 2008.

Well, in all fairness you got back into the hobby at the end of the 5th edition.
Orc and Goblin 5th ed was printed in 2000, 6th in 2006 and 7th is out in 2011. Thats only 3 books in 11 years. People in Japan change their car more often. Codex Space Marines was 1998, 2004 and 2008 so thats actually 3 in 10 years. Mind you Space Marines are more popular than O&G.

Still, your point is valid, you dont want to keep paying for the rule books over and over again. At least, generally speaking, the models you have now wont need to be changed and I noticed a few older pieces in your army. Thats one of the good points to being a long-term player. Whilst there are some models that get removed (Squats, IG Landspeeders) or replaced (those horrid old DEldar models), you can usually use older models without problem and dont need to buy new ones. So 15 quid every 4 or so years isnt that much of a hardship for me. Especially since I DO buy the new models. D'oh!

As for the "If it aint broke, dont fix it" idea, I am in complete agreement with you. The newer books all mesh well together so long as players dont cheese out on their army builds. Codex IG is the most well balanced book out there if you use a fun, friendly list. (ie not some leafblower clone). I love the new Tyranids book, much better than the last one, though I do need to extensively remodel some of my army.

[Admiral-Badruck]

I would not run blood Angels as World Eaters... I would run my world eaters as world eaters.. and I would be happy about it... thank you very much... I just do not think the Chaos codex fits the fluff or play style of the World Eater legion not at all.

so if it comes out fine if not Blood Angels will have to do...

next I will be half way unhappy if Tau get a new codex.. only because I am really working hard to wrap my mind around the current codex if they the rumors get stronger I will have to leave the Tau alone until the new dex comes out... so Please GW do not update the Current tau dex. I am having fun with them as they are....

[Mike the Pike]

I just do not think the Chaos codex fits the fluff or play style of the World Eater legion not at all.

This is a double negative. So, you actually mean that you think the fluff fits the WEs. That makes you even more of a tool for playing them as BAs

[Admiral-Badruck]

I am a tool for playing them now but when I get a codex I will be happy...

[me_in_japan]

I'm in a hurry, so I wont quote people, but my tuppence worth is:

Chaos needs a new codex. So far as I can tell, there is currently no Chaos Codex. There's a lovely Black Legion codex, but if you want to play other legions (particularly ones like night lords or iron warriors), then youre stuffed.

Chaos probably doesnt need one codex per legion, but then I dont think loyalists need one per chapter, either. The special-character-unlocks-special-rules is nice, but there are better ways to do it.

My dream Chaos Codex would look like this:

A big section o fluff

A big painty section

Unit entries for all current chaos units - those from codex CSM and codex Daemons.
1 special character for each major legion (Abaddon, Kharn, Typhus, Lucius, Ahriman, Fabius, plus maybe Honsou, and a Night Lord. I may have missed a legion or two here. gomen if its your pet legion. Some daemonic special chars would be nice too, but not a prerequisite.)

A page detailing how to legionify your army, e.g. :

Power specific daemons may only be taken in an army where the HQ unit bears the mark of their god. This limits most armies to having daemons of up to 2 powers.

Daemonic Rivalry: Daemons of Khorne and Slaanesh may not be taken in the same army.
Daemons of Nurgle and Tzeentch may not be taken in the same army.
This, of course, rather removes the usefulness of a Daemons of Chaos codex, but the thing was a superfluous abomination anyway.

Black Legion (Chaos Undivided): No special rules. (To offset this, Abaddon could have a rule: Chosen of Chaos: Daemons of any chaos power can be taken. This rule overides Daemonic Rivalrly.) having multi-power daemons in the same army should be considered a major brownie point in Abaddon's favour.

World Eaters: Khorne berserkers count as troops. HQ units without the mark of Khorne may not be taken. Units with any chaos mark other than that of Khorne may not be taken. Havoc squads become a 0-1 Heavy Support choice. Khornate Daemons may be chosen. Bloodletters count as troops.

Death Guard: Plague Marines count as troops. HQ units without the mark of Nurgle may not be taken. Units with any chaos mark other than that of Nurgle may not be taken. Raptor squads become a 0-1 Heavy Support choice. Nurgle Daemons may be chosen. Plaguebearers count as troops.

etc, etc. Iron Warriors: same pattern as above, but can count Havocs as troops. The special character could unlock the option to get an IG tank or something.

Basically, I like the idea of special characters unlocking special abilities, but I dont like the idea of having to take a special character every single time you want to play World Eaters\Plague Marines etc. There are a lot of very single-power pious warbands out there in the Eye, and not all of them are led by figures of legend.

dats wot i fink, anyway...

[Admiral-Badruck]

Wow MIJ said it best now what would you do with the vanilla marines to make it so we do not need a codex for dogs ,angels and knights. I reckon the IA 9 and 10 method is the best.

[Primarch]

I reckon the IA 9 and 10 method is the best.

You mean where the Blood Angels successor chapter character says "Use the Blood Angels codex"?
All the other chapters in the book are successors for codex Space Marine chapters.

Mantis Warriors = White Scars,
Nova Marines = Ultramarines,
Raptors = Ravenguard
Executioners = Imperial Fists
Sons of Medusa = Iron Hands
Salamanders = Er....