'Eavy....resin?

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Primarch
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'Eavy....resin?

Post by Primarch » Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:29 pm

For those of you who read BoLS and Warseer, you've probably already seen this, but there are some serious posts flying about GW stopping metal production across all the ranges effective this week.
The rumours are that they are switching to resin (though a different type from FW and a different production method), though how this will affect costs (its cheaper, so GW will probably put prices up?) isn't clear. There are also the concerns that resin has lots of problems with being fragile, not holding paint well and being toxic if you inhale the dust.

Its true that the rising costs of metal have probably played a big part in this.
This is from Heresy Minis in the UK.
My heart sank: I felt like I'd been just been told that I had an incurable disease of some sort. I had just been given the latest price for the tin alloy we use to cast the models in. remember whewn I did that last price rise in September because metal had risen so much I could no longer afford to absorb the increase? Well, since then, it's gone up another 37%. In fact, it's done 30% of that in the last three months alone. It's insane. The price of 50kgs of metal is now more than my Ford Focus and Craig's 125cc motorbike are worth if you add them together!

I am shocked and horrified at this latest price for metal. I just can't carry on with the prices as they are on the majority of the range. I need to put prices up to maintain profitability. It saddens me to do it, but it seems that there IS a reason why GW are charging £8.00+ for single figures these days. If only I had the vast fortunes it requires to make plastic kits...

To illustrate, when I started out the metal price was £4.65 a kg plus VAT, it is now £23.75/kg plus VAT, which means in order to get bare minimum profits - and that ignores additional costs such as packaging, labour, etc - on the heavier figures at trade discount (which is the bugger in all of the pricing problems), a figure like a Deathball Ogre needs to be price at £22.00 each. Currently they are £12.00, with an option to buy them at £8.00 each if you get 5 or more. Something has to give, the disparity is too great. I think they will have to come with less pieces from now on, ie only two random fists not 6, only two heads not 3, just so I can scrape some savings on the RRP. The NL2, it says on my Excel spreadsheet, should really be £154.00! That one's not gonna happen, I'll tell you that. Fortunately, I don't sell the NL2t to Trade so i can limit it to around £65.00 RRP Azaroth DOES sell to trade, so he needs to be £55.00 instead of £30.00. :whah?: Again, this just means people won't buy him any more. Have to seriously look into getting him resined up. it can't cost as much as the metal does now.

In summary - there will be major price increases coming to the site in the next couple of weeks, by the end of the month at the latest. Whilst the human sized figures like the skinny sc-ifi crowd (except for the big heavies with massive guns) won't be too badly affected, bulky figures like the Boris range (Berserk Boris 1 should be £9.00 rrp for example, not £5.00) , the monsters, and the multiple-figure troop packs, will be hit noticeably harder.

So, if you want to get those gang figures, or have been holding off on a purchase until Salute, probably best to stick that order in right away instead!

I am sorry about this, I'm sure you all know the reasons by now, it's becomes such a regular announcement. And you will see a lot more of them in the next month or two from all the other indie minis manufacturers as the cost works its way down the chain from casters.

I am told that the tin price is levelling by the alloy suppliers so there shouldn't be another massive hike in prices in the near future. "Fingers crossed," they added. Will it go down? I hope so. I really do. Meantime I'm concentrating on doing smaller figures rather than the big monsters I so adore.
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Re: 'Eavy....resin?

Post by me_in_japan » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:38 pm

*shrug*

Resin isnt so much worse than metal, with the exception of it's fragility, which is an arse.

If they have to shift to resin production to keep costs not-insane, then fair enough. Itll be interesting to see what happens when they do, like, will the other manufacturers join em? will a niche market be created for metal purists? Will everyone else stick with metal? Will metal costs drop when GW stop buying it (id imagine they were a fairly major buyer of mini-making-metal, but I dont know if the same stuff is used commercially for other things. I mean, if the metal is only used for minis, then GW not buying it will have a huge effect on its price. If its also used to build cruise liners then GW pulling out of the market will do...nothing discernable.

Anyway - it boots nothing to speculate (altho Im sure folks will). Im happy to wait and see. :)

*edit* sorry - missed that bit about tin being the driving force behind the cost hike. I daresay tin is used in all sorts of things. I wonder why its gotten so pricey of late...

*edit* I reckon itd be well worth heresy andy getting his stuff done up in resin. Id be happy enough to keep buying his stuff if he did.
*sigh* so want a heresy dragon. so cant justify geting one :(
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Wow. And then Corona happened. Just....crickets, all the way through to 2023...

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Re: 'Eavy....resin?

Post by Spevna » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:32 pm

Doesn't matter what GW make their minis out of, they will still find a way to gouge everyone and get there pound of flesh. Dirty little thieving Grimlocks :evil:
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Re: 'Eavy....resin?

Post by ennui » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:56 pm

It seems that steel and other scrap metal is scarce right now, and I wonder if that is playing a part in this. Car factories all across Japan have halted production, too.
...

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Re: 'Eavy....resin?

Post by Admiral-Badruck » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:22 pm

Guess this means get your lightning claw models quick because resin LCs will be a big problem. Other than that I am down with resin as far as toxic I am sure it is no worse than seconhand smoke.
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Re: 'Eavy....resin?

Post by Mike the Pike » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:51 am

Admiral-Badruck wrote:Guess this means get your lightning claw models quick because resin LCs will be a big problem. Other than that I am down with resin as far as toxic I am sure it is no worse than seconhand smoke.
:o :o :o
The absence of any form of smiley leads me to believe that you actually believe this. Second hand smoke is as bad as, if not worse than direct smoking of tobacco products. :roll:

Anyways, on topic, it remains to be seen what GW and other manufacturers replace their metal with. Resin and/or plastic. Both have pros and cons. I have to say though that recent plastic models from GW and other manufacturers are absolutely are amazing, detail wise, so the old argument that metal produces finer, crisper details is no longer really true. Resin, I'm not such a fan of.

As for why the reason that metal prices have gone through the roof lies in the rapid growth in emerging markets (i.e. China, India etc) as well as the ever expanding range of electronics. Tin, especially is an essential metal in the modern world. It is used in a variety of alloys (bronze being the most familiar) . However it's main use is as one of the main components in solder. Every circuit board made has a fair chunk of tin in it which explains where all this tin is suddenly going. Ironically it is also one reason modern electronics randomly and suddenly 'die'. Apparently they grow tin 'whiskers' over time which may cause electronic equipment to short circuit.

The solution? Return to analogue! Trade in your iphone for an analog model. Buy a gramophone. Watch more puppet theatre rather than TV. :D :D :D

BTW This could still be an elaborate April Fool's Day joke of course. :?:
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Re: 'Eavy....resin?

Post by Primarch » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:24 am

Admiral-Badruck wrote:Guess this means get your lightning claw models quick because resin LCs will be a big problem.
I do have one LC armed resin model and they look ok. I would much prefer them in plastic though.

One issue I do have with resin (especially FWs stuff) is that once you superglue it, the glue is stronger than the resin, so if you make a mistake you can't just pry the pieces apart again easily.
Mike the Pike wrote:Anyways, on topic, it remains to be seen what GW and other manufacturers replace their metal with. Resin and/or plastic. Both have pros and cons. I have to say though that recent plastic models from GW and other manufacturers are absolutely are amazing, detail wise, so the old argument that metal produces finer, crisper details is no longer really true. Resin, I'm not such a fan of.
Plastic costs a LOT more to produce a mould for (Basically add a few zeroes to the end of the metal mould figure). So they wont be replacing their metals with plastic anytime soon I guess. Resin does seem to be the only viable option, either that or the wierd plastic the Privateer Press have started using.
Mike the Pike wrote:BTW This could still be an elaborate April Fool's Day joke of course. :?:
Very very very elaborate.
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Some of the stuff on that list is pretty old, and some stuff will probably make a return in plastic, e.g. Plague Bearers ,being the only metal daemon troop choice. Some stuff is fairly new e.g. Sternguard and the Skaven Screaming Bell, which I was unaware contained any metal parts.
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Re: 'Eavy....resin?

Post by jus » Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:37 am

the wierd plastic the Privateer Press have started using...
really ain't that flash. Its really firm but malleable enough for conversion work, but the detail isn't as sharp as GW plastic. All that said though, I'd still prefer wierd plastic over metal. I think miniature companies changing over to resin or plastic would be a step in the right direction. Hope it happens soon too.

By the way, I hear tell of a planned release of privateer press coming out with plastic warpacks for Hordes.

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Re: 'Eavy....resin?

Post by Primarch » Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:49 am

The list of removed items is getting longer.....

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Re: 'Eavy....resin?

Post by Primarch » Sun May 01, 2011 6:39 am

Spevna wrote:Doesn't matter what GW make their minis out of, they will still find a way to gouge everyone and get there pound of flesh. Dirty little thieving Grimlocks :evil:
There are people out there on the web who seem to be supporting Spev's rather bleak view of Games Workshop.

When GW started pulling metal figures from the shelves, there was no reason given. The rising cost of metal is a real thing, so this was most people's first reaction. However, a second alternative is being floated around the internet.
Basically, running a store is expensive. One of the biggest costs is Insurance, where you have to insure every item on your shelves at cost against fire, theft etc. The latest rumour is that GW is pulling all metal stock from their shops to save big time on insurance costs (since you can fit 1 plastic box in the space for 18 metal blisters). By making all the metals direct only they decrease costs in their retail stores by a massive amount. And since direct minis have no trade policy, none of the regular online stores can offer them at a discount. (E.g. GW always get the full RRP themselves).
At the present, GW is no longer shipping new metal models anywhere, so they have all their stock in their own warehouse and are selling it all through their own Direct service, so whether this is just the interim between metal being replaced by resin, or the final end-game in their master plan only time will tell.

I have in the past defended the actions of GW on the grounds that they are just doing business, but to me this seems to be taking it one step too far. Whilst I wont take a Spevna Stance (trademark pending), and boycott them entirely, I will happily boycott their metal range if it turns out that it was one big money grabbing exercise. :evil: :evil: :evil:
If they do change over to resin then that is fine so long as their prices dont go up. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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