Day #2 WarmaHordes Mini Tournament
- Danguinius
- Veteran
- Posts: 425
- Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 10:50 am
- Location: Fukuyama. Hiroshima
Re: Day #2 WarmaHordes Mini Tournament
Greetings,
I`ve been lucky enough to get a lot of games in recently, so I was able to playtest a lot of scenarios. I`ve narrowed it down to 5, which I have sent to the people who asked for them. Please try them out and let me know what you think of them.
After lots of playtesting, I`ve decided to go with 60-minute Deathclocks. While that might sound like a lot of time, it isn`t. My groups had 2 games go to time (I lost one of those) with 60 minutes. Believe me, you `ll be all confident after playing like a 5-minute first turn...then your second turn will take like 25 minutes! If you are worried about time, you may consider fewer solos and cheap (especially, shooty) infantry in your list.
Lastly, I`m still working on getting everything translated into Japanese. It may be another week or so. After I get it all done, I`ll post all of the English and Japanese information together.
Danguinius
I`ve been lucky enough to get a lot of games in recently, so I was able to playtest a lot of scenarios. I`ve narrowed it down to 5, which I have sent to the people who asked for them. Please try them out and let me know what you think of them.
After lots of playtesting, I`ve decided to go with 60-minute Deathclocks. While that might sound like a lot of time, it isn`t. My groups had 2 games go to time (I lost one of those) with 60 minutes. Believe me, you `ll be all confident after playing like a 5-minute first turn...then your second turn will take like 25 minutes! If you are worried about time, you may consider fewer solos and cheap (especially, shooty) infantry in your list.
Lastly, I`m still working on getting everything translated into Japanese. It may be another week or so. After I get it all done, I`ll post all of the English and Japanese information together.
Danguinius
We are the Blood Angels, and we fear not. We are proud sons of the Imperium and the protectors of mankind. We are the Angels of Death and the Emperor`s Wrath – D(S)anguinius
- Danguinius
- Veteran
- Posts: 425
- Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 10:50 am
- Location: Fukuyama. Hiroshima
Re: Day #2 WarmaHordes Mini Tournament
Well, I got 3 more games in yesterday. Here`s what I learned and how it will affect the mini tournie.
1. Games are often decided by time out with a 60-minute Deathclock. And, I`m assuming all other participants have less experience than myself and will therefore go a little slower. So, I`ve changed it to 70 minute Deathclock. This was a little long for me...maybe it will be for everyone...but it will put a little pressure on people and prevent any ties.
2. I have 7 Cygnar casters. I decided to shelve eHaley (who is mighty in scenario) and eCaine, Brisbane (who are mighty in assassination) and my favorite, Kraye (who isn`t mighty, but has quirky cavalry rules)...and try to use a "support caster" for the tournie. I kind of unofficially went with pCaine. However, I have now suffered 4 straight losses with him...so I may be going with another "support caster", pHaley.
3. I have decided on Sacrifice, Bunkers (ver 2.0), and Process of Elimination as the three scenarios for the tournament. I have all three of these scenarios in English and Japanese; if anyone hasn`t received them yet, please PM me. The order of these three scenarios will be determined randomly on the day of the tournie. I recommend all participants get some practice with them.
4. eKreoss is a very bad man. However, I really don`t know what to do about him yet. He has a tendency to turn the Protectorate`s plethora of weapon masters into unstoppable killing machines that dice my poor Cynarians into little blue chunks. He even turns the humble Revenger into an unstoppable killing machine, which I didn`t think was possible.
5. I`ve really been "hitting the books" with the rules and now feel a bit more confident about being the TO.
I hope everyone gets a little painting in and a lot of practice in before The Big Throw Down. Let me know if you have any questions, concerns, etc.
Danguinius
1. Games are often decided by time out with a 60-minute Deathclock. And, I`m assuming all other participants have less experience than myself and will therefore go a little slower. So, I`ve changed it to 70 minute Deathclock. This was a little long for me...maybe it will be for everyone...but it will put a little pressure on people and prevent any ties.
2. I have 7 Cygnar casters. I decided to shelve eHaley (who is mighty in scenario) and eCaine, Brisbane (who are mighty in assassination) and my favorite, Kraye (who isn`t mighty, but has quirky cavalry rules)...and try to use a "support caster" for the tournie. I kind of unofficially went with pCaine. However, I have now suffered 4 straight losses with him...so I may be going with another "support caster", pHaley.
3. I have decided on Sacrifice, Bunkers (ver 2.0), and Process of Elimination as the three scenarios for the tournament. I have all three of these scenarios in English and Japanese; if anyone hasn`t received them yet, please PM me. The order of these three scenarios will be determined randomly on the day of the tournie. I recommend all participants get some practice with them.
4. eKreoss is a very bad man. However, I really don`t know what to do about him yet. He has a tendency to turn the Protectorate`s plethora of weapon masters into unstoppable killing machines that dice my poor Cynarians into little blue chunks. He even turns the humble Revenger into an unstoppable killing machine, which I didn`t think was possible.
5. I`ve really been "hitting the books" with the rules and now feel a bit more confident about being the TO.
I hope everyone gets a little painting in and a lot of practice in before The Big Throw Down. Let me know if you have any questions, concerns, etc.
Danguinius
We are the Blood Angels, and we fear not. We are proud sons of the Imperium and the protectors of mankind. We are the Angels of Death and the Emperor`s Wrath – D(S)anguinius
- Commissar-Koala
- Rookie
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:36 pm
Re: Day #2 WarmaHordes Mini Tournament
Mua-hahahahahahahahahaha! That was fun...Danguinius wrote:
4. eKreoss is a very bad man. However, I really don`t know what to do about him yet. He has a tendency to turn the Protectorate`s plethora of weapon masters into unstoppable killing machines that dice my poor Cynarians into little blue chunks. He even turns the humble Revenger into an unstoppable killing machine, which I didn`t think was possible.
Danguinius
- Danguinius
- Veteran
- Posts: 425
- Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 10:50 am
- Location: Fukuyama. Hiroshima
Re: Day #2 WarmaHordes Mini Tournament
Yes, the weakest thing in your army (aside from the Piper) ran up and decapitated 5 of my super-hard-to-hit gunmages in one activation...loads of fun! (Grumble, grumble, grumble...)
Danguinius
Danguinius
We are the Blood Angels, and we fear not. We are proud sons of the Imperium and the protectors of mankind. We are the Angels of Death and the Emperor`s Wrath – D(S)anguinius
- Danguinius
- Veteran
- Posts: 425
- Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 10:50 am
- Location: Fukuyama. Hiroshima
Re: Day #2 WarmaHordes Mini Tournament
Greetings,
I thought I`d add a little post about list-making for the 35-point mini-tournie to help players prepare for scenario play and working with a deathclock. When you make your list, you may want to consider the following points:
1. Does you list have something with Advanced Deployment or SPD 7 + Pathfinder? Fast things that can get into zones or next to flags quickly are always useful.
2. Does your list have something for dealing with high armor (i.e. can you punch through ARM 19 or better)? Speed is important, but heavy jacks with high ARM sitting in a zone can be tough to remove. Khador and Protectorate players will participate in this tournie and their warjacks are high armored.
3. Do you have some units and solos that can work independent of your warcaster? Some scenarios require your force to work on two fronts and when you split up your force, some of your models will be outside of your warcaster`s control range. A fighty solo or jack-marshalled warjack can help here.
4. Do you have a reasonable model count and can you activate them quickly? Especially if you are a newer player, planning your activations and carrying out every little step will really eat time off your deathclock. You may want to avoid units with lots of models that shoot. Warjacks and fighty solos are easy to activate quickly, so they might speed up your turns.
5. Lastly, do you have a way to push, slam, throw, or place enemy models? You may be losing a game due to an enemy model contesting a zone with no way to kill it...but if you could just move it two inches backwards, the zone (and the game) would be yours! Warjacks with open hands for throwing are good for this. Heavy warjacks are good for slamming enemies out of an area. You may also consider attacks or spells that push or place enemy models.
I hope these tips will help with list planning. As I`m sure everyone knows, spamming units is generally not a good route to take in WarmaHordes...instead, try to make a list with units that fill a lot of roles and can react to a variety of threats. With many options in your list, you`ll have a lot of options on the battlefield. Good luck everyone...I`m looking forward to seeing everyone next month.
Danguinius
I thought I`d add a little post about list-making for the 35-point mini-tournie to help players prepare for scenario play and working with a deathclock. When you make your list, you may want to consider the following points:
1. Does you list have something with Advanced Deployment or SPD 7 + Pathfinder? Fast things that can get into zones or next to flags quickly are always useful.
2. Does your list have something for dealing with high armor (i.e. can you punch through ARM 19 or better)? Speed is important, but heavy jacks with high ARM sitting in a zone can be tough to remove. Khador and Protectorate players will participate in this tournie and their warjacks are high armored.
3. Do you have some units and solos that can work independent of your warcaster? Some scenarios require your force to work on two fronts and when you split up your force, some of your models will be outside of your warcaster`s control range. A fighty solo or jack-marshalled warjack can help here.
4. Do you have a reasonable model count and can you activate them quickly? Especially if you are a newer player, planning your activations and carrying out every little step will really eat time off your deathclock. You may want to avoid units with lots of models that shoot. Warjacks and fighty solos are easy to activate quickly, so they might speed up your turns.
5. Lastly, do you have a way to push, slam, throw, or place enemy models? You may be losing a game due to an enemy model contesting a zone with no way to kill it...but if you could just move it two inches backwards, the zone (and the game) would be yours! Warjacks with open hands for throwing are good for this. Heavy warjacks are good for slamming enemies out of an area. You may also consider attacks or spells that push or place enemy models.
I hope these tips will help with list planning. As I`m sure everyone knows, spamming units is generally not a good route to take in WarmaHordes...instead, try to make a list with units that fill a lot of roles and can react to a variety of threats. With many options in your list, you`ll have a lot of options on the battlefield. Good luck everyone...I`m looking forward to seeing everyone next month.
Danguinius
We are the Blood Angels, and we fear not. We are proud sons of the Imperium and the protectors of mankind. We are the Angels of Death and the Emperor`s Wrath – D(S)anguinius
- Danguinius
- Veteran
- Posts: 425
- Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 10:50 am
- Location: Fukuyama. Hiroshima
Re: Day #2 WarmaHordes Mini Tournament
Greetings,
I was looking at my list of recommendations for list-building and realized it was woefully incomplete. So, here are some more things to think about when creating your army:
1. Can your army deal with high DEF? This is a major point that I foolishly forgot to put in the last post. Cygnar and Cryx have some infantry and solos that START at DEF 14 or 15...and they may have buffs to go even higher. Also, many warcasters (in all factions) rely on high DEF to survive. High DEF can be mitigated by MAT or RAT buffs (you want to get up around 9-10 or higher), knockdown effects, stationary effects, or area-of-effect attacks.
2. Sometimes, Stealth and/or Incorpreal can throw you army for a loop. To counter Stealth, use models with true sight, arcane precision, spray attacks, or consider running up the field to engage them more quickly. Magic Weapons are really needed to take care of Incorpreal models...but spells and feats can hurt them too.
3. Also, as a Cygnar player, my advice is to ask yourself this question: "How is my caster protected?" Not only Cygnar, but other armies may have some long-ranged assassination threats (particularly shooting). How do you plan to keep you caster from getting shot down before your army even gets to the fight? This might be especially tricky if your warcaster is on a medium or large sized base. The easiest way is simply put you warcaster behind two heavy `jacks. Cloud effects can also keep your caster from being seen. Models with Shield Guard can also take a shot for the team. If the terrain is favorable and your warcaster has pathfinder, keeping him or her in terrain is also a good idea. Lastly, if all else fails, put your caster in melee combat quickly.
4. Layer your list with several ways to win - this is the best overall advice I can give. Remember, there are always three ways to win: killing the opposing caster, fulfilling the scenario victory conditions, or having your opponent run out of time. So, you should have a few options that help with each of these ways in your list. That means, a couple ways to lay waste to an opposing caster with one or two of your own models...fast models that can claim zones quickly and durable models that can hold ground and take some punishment...and a streamlined list so that your turns are shorter than your opponent`s turns.
I hope this advice helps.
Danguinius
I was looking at my list of recommendations for list-building and realized it was woefully incomplete. So, here are some more things to think about when creating your army:
1. Can your army deal with high DEF? This is a major point that I foolishly forgot to put in the last post. Cygnar and Cryx have some infantry and solos that START at DEF 14 or 15...and they may have buffs to go even higher. Also, many warcasters (in all factions) rely on high DEF to survive. High DEF can be mitigated by MAT or RAT buffs (you want to get up around 9-10 or higher), knockdown effects, stationary effects, or area-of-effect attacks.
2. Sometimes, Stealth and/or Incorpreal can throw you army for a loop. To counter Stealth, use models with true sight, arcane precision, spray attacks, or consider running up the field to engage them more quickly. Magic Weapons are really needed to take care of Incorpreal models...but spells and feats can hurt them too.
3. Also, as a Cygnar player, my advice is to ask yourself this question: "How is my caster protected?" Not only Cygnar, but other armies may have some long-ranged assassination threats (particularly shooting). How do you plan to keep you caster from getting shot down before your army even gets to the fight? This might be especially tricky if your warcaster is on a medium or large sized base. The easiest way is simply put you warcaster behind two heavy `jacks. Cloud effects can also keep your caster from being seen. Models with Shield Guard can also take a shot for the team. If the terrain is favorable and your warcaster has pathfinder, keeping him or her in terrain is also a good idea. Lastly, if all else fails, put your caster in melee combat quickly.
4. Layer your list with several ways to win - this is the best overall advice I can give. Remember, there are always three ways to win: killing the opposing caster, fulfilling the scenario victory conditions, or having your opponent run out of time. So, you should have a few options that help with each of these ways in your list. That means, a couple ways to lay waste to an opposing caster with one or two of your own models...fast models that can claim zones quickly and durable models that can hold ground and take some punishment...and a streamlined list so that your turns are shorter than your opponent`s turns.
I hope this advice helps.
Danguinius
We are the Blood Angels, and we fear not. We are proud sons of the Imperium and the protectors of mankind. We are the Angels of Death and the Emperor`s Wrath – D(S)anguinius
- me_in_japan
- Moderator of Swoosh!
- Posts: 7395
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 2:46 pm
- Location: Tsu, Mie, Japan
Re: Day #2 WarmaHordes Mini Tournament
I am so totally doomed in this tourney. Doomed, I tell you. All the advice about list building is lovely and helpful and all, but I'm still scruffing about down here at the "hum. Which of my models are glued together? Hmmm that's not 35pts. Best get the glue out." end of the food chain
The above line of thought is usually followed by "right: what does that symbol mean again? Undead? What are the rules for that, then...?"
Doomed, I tells yez
The above line of thought is usually followed by "right: what does that symbol mean again? Undead? What are the rules for that, then...?"
Doomed, I tells yez
current (2019) hobby interests
eh, y'know. Stuff, and things
Wow. And then Corona happened. Just....crickets, all the way through to 2023...
eh, y'know. Stuff, and things
Wow. And then Corona happened. Just....crickets, all the way through to 2023...
Re: Day #2 WarmaHordes Mini Tournament
All that list building nonsense doesn't matter, you are all going to get 'Butcher'ed
Painted Minis in 2014: 510, in 2015: 300, in 2016 :369, in 2019: 417, in 2020: 450
- Colonel Voss
- Moderator
- Posts: 1132
- Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 11:16 pm
- Location: Yokkaichi, Mie
Re: Day #2 WarmaHordes Mini Tournament
hmmm.... last game against the butcher, I eremember him cutting down more of his army than mine. which allowed me to cut him down in return.
It's easy to die in the swamp. What's hard is to staying dead.
-Alten Ashley
Iron within, Iron without
-Alten Ashley
Iron within, Iron without
Re: Day #2 WarmaHordes Mini Tournament
In fairness, that was eButcher (and I lost both games I used him), not pButcher (who I have won 9 games out of 10 with).Colonel Voss wrote:hmmm.... last game against the butcher, I eremember him cutting down more of his army than mine. which allowed me to cut him down in return.
eButcher tends to cause as much damage to his own side as the enemy.
So let me make things clearer.
Everyone is getting 'pButcher'ed
Painted Minis in 2014: 510, in 2015: 300, in 2016 :369, in 2019: 417, in 2020: 450