Reflections on Black Powder etc.

[Primarch]

After the recent big game of Black Powder I have been doing a bit of thinking about the Warlord systems (Black Powder for 1700-1900, Pike and Shotte for 1500-1700 and Hail Caesar for anything pre 1500s, if you didn't already know).

First off, it seems like they handle big games very well. The rules aren't as detailed as some would like, heck they make Warhammer seem complex by comparison, but they work. We got through 9 turns of a 6 player game in around 6 hours and that is with two total newcomers and 2 more players with only 1 small demo game under their belts playing. Personally I think that is an amazing turn of speed given the circumstances.

The second thing I noticed during the game was that there was less confusion over the rules than in a typical game of WFB or 40K. There are certainly some parts where the rules don't cover stuff, but the system promotes behaviour almost as much as the rules. I know there are points where players feel the rules could be changed, but I'm very happy with the general approach taken with them.

Outside the game, I am having a lot of fun researching and studying the history of units, generals and armies. Whilst other games tell you everything there is to know about the world or setting, historical games do have a nice element of finding the information for yourself. Now this may not appeal to everyone, but for me it is interesting and something I can do on my way to work. I recommend Osprey Publishing as a start for those of you interested in doing the same.
The research also gives me a better connection to the units. It isn't just a representation of the rules on the tabletop, it is a representation of real people who did real things both heroic and terrible. By learning about these people I can feel closer to the action on the tabletop.

So what does all this waffling on mean?
Well, you can expect more big games like the February event in the future. NagoyaHammer will be getting most of my attention for the next few months, but I certainly plan to throw another big game once that is done and dusted.
It also means that I am going to have to get busy with my other BP/HC projects. Anything less than two big brigades is just a skirmish I'm afraid, so my initial plans for my Romans and Zulus are going to have to be expanded (slowly though). Likewise I can see myself painting more redcoats in the future as I'd like to add at least 2 more Brigades to my British forces.
This also leads in to some thought I have been giving to the other events I run. I'll still keep doing all of my regular events (NH, Orc-toberfest etc), but there may be some changes to the format or games available. Nothing has been decided yet and the sky isn't falling, but I will be naturally be devoting more energy to the games I enjoy and hopefully you will to.

[me_in_japan]

Aiaiiiieeeeee! The sky is falling!


Right, now that's out of the way...



Sounds fine to me. Clearly, the bulk of your post is about your own opinions on historical gaming, a subject I know very little about. On that I say - knock ya self out, chief Glad yer enjoying it

Re changes to Naghammer (with the implication these changes will be influenced by your experience with historicals.) Well, if that influence manifests as a push towards collaborative gaming, scenario based play and gentlemanly conduct, I say bring it on with bells on. If it manifests as a desire to play on tables 16 feet long with armies consisting of the entire first company of the Ultramarines....hum. Not so keen

[YellowStreak]

If it manifests as a desire to play on tables 16 feet long with armies consisting of the entire first company of the Ultramarines....hum. Not so keen

Surely you've always wanted to wipe out the entire first company of the Ultramarines? No?

[ashmie]

@Prim.
Couldn't agree more. Black Powder and historicals for the win for me. In fact that's all I paint now my fantasy stuff is done. I do have some Empire but I'm toying with the idea of painting them in westcountry colours to bolster my Pike and Shotte. I missed both of your historical events this year and last but am still very keen to play, keep me in the loop. I hope you will try Pike and Shotte sometime when I've painted them, this year or next.
Keep up the good work. Glad you are enjoying the historicals as that's where this whole hobby comes from after all. RPG and fantasy wargaming both stem from there.

[Colonel Voss]

I enjoyed both games of Black Powder and bolt action last Monday. I think one of the funnest parts was knowing (though not remembering) all the units under my command in Black Powder and adding color into the game through that and other things such a paces and what not. The rules worked well and the game flowed smoothly despite it being my first time ever to play the game. I've been looking over Hail Ceasar and again, it looks really smooth and interesting.

Getting into historical has been enjoyable. Flames of War works wonderfully for me both as a gamer and a hobbyist. Moving into Bolt Action was in a way, just reducing FoW down to a smaller size. I feel a bit more immersion in the game then I have in a long time with both of these games. Black Powder, Hail Ceasar and Pike and Shot would all add another level of immersion.

The question then becomes what to choose. History has so many options that it just becomes hard to pick where to start. It makes me feel like a greedy kid who wants way too much

[ashmie]

@Colonol.
Great to hear you enjoyed Black Powder. In terms of historicals my advice (should you want it) would be to pick a period of history that interests you, or you like a film of or even better you have a personal connection with. With historical it's important to feel a connection with what you paint and collect. Otherwise it may be a chore as quite often the models are the same with big units.
I went for Prussia for my obvious Prussian routes. No seriousely it was the uniforms I liked and the reputation of the Prussian army that is touched on in the film Barry Lyndon. I liked the way the Landwehr were recruited from the fields and drafted from 16 to 40s. I also liked that anyone could get in the army. A lot of mercenaries were drafted. I thought the Prussian history was interesting too and it was fun to choose a setting that took place way before Hitler and the Nazi's.
For Flames of War I chose the Red Devils purely for the film The Longest Day. I also read up on the unit with a pen and sword publication. The day the devils dropped in.
The most interesting so far has been ECW. I've chosen an area of the map I hail from and picked a battle that took place in a town that is local to my background in the westcountry. This has been great while reading up as I can picture the exact towns and locations included in the history.
I've also painted a 6mm British regiment and a Roman cohort for Field of Glory. Only played Field of Glory once.
Basically if you want big big battles go for the smaller scale but if you like nice looking models go for 28mm. Or 20. One thing Prim has done is painted two sides for a battle so anyone can give it a go. This is a good way if you really like a period but fear no one else will collect it. If you can find someone to joint paint a period, an army each this is an equally rewarding experience. Myself and Prim collected and painted Prussians and British to start off with, a few units a side to find our feet with the system. This was a very productive and enjoyable project I found. Although I nearly died from Army Painter dip! Avoid at all costs. Does the job but kills the braincells daily.
Hope this is helpful.
Happy painting.

[Tenorikuma]

I might get into something historical in 2014. (2013 is pretty much taken up by Warhammer and 40K army and terrain-building plans.)

Is it better to plan for freestyle games, or would it be worthwhile trying to recreate specific battles?

[Primarch]

Is it better to plan for freestyle games, or would it be worthwhile trying to recreate specific battles?

It would all depend on the number of models you wanted to collect and the battle in question.
For example, Ash is doing the Battle of Torrington, which took place at the end of the English Civil War. The number of troops involved is small enough to make it possible to collect and field the armies involved within a reasonable amount of time. There were about 10000 men involved in the battle. Compare that to Marston Moor, a battle a year and a half earlier and there were close to 40000 on the field. And that's only in the minor Uk league. There were 190,000 men in total at Waterloo. Of course, we use reduced a much reduced figure count in the units on the table, maybe 1:25 or 1:40 so that we can actually finish painting within our own lifetime.
As you get further back, written records of forces and orders of battle become less reliable or even non-existant so it is easier to put your army together along the lines you like.
The best answer (at least for me) is to collect units from a specific battle so you have the history and background to draw upon and look at, but play games that suit whatever both you and your opponent have available. For example, my British are all based on units that were present at Waterloo even though I have no hope of ever being able to recreate such a massive battle in 28mm scale. (Well, not unless every forum member took part and we spent a few years preparing ). At the recent historical game we played English and French vs. Russians and Austrians. Totally inaccurate as far as history is concerned but a lot of fun nevertheless.

[Admiral-Badruck]

Black powder for me is fun because it is a break from the 40k FB gaming. I am keen to play as much I can possibly make it out to..

[Colonel Voss]

Given the sheer variety of stuff for Hail Ceaser I could choose from, I think starting something a little bit more specific would be best for me. I'm still digging around the Coalition Wars (you silly Europeans, can't you keep even one war simple?) for what I'd like to build up. Austria or Russia look most likely.