Dropfleet Commander Post-Launch Effort Thread

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Dropfleet Commander Post-Launch Effort Thread

Post by The Other Dave » Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:43 pm

Dropfleet has hit retail, and has hit the table locally, so it's time to start a real "this is what the game is" effort threat, yay!

Dropfleet Commander: What Is It?

Hawk Wargames' new spaceship combat game, designed by Hawk's Dave Lewis and Big Name Andy Chambers. Fun Rules, Sexy Spaceships.

How is it Different from Other Space Combat Games?

Well, the spaceship combat itself is actually pretty standard, in a good way. Movement is (typically for spaceship combat games that aren't super beardy) more or less based on waterborne naval combat, with minimum and maximum move distances depending on ship class, limited turning, and such, with the added wrinkle of movement between orbital layers, shooting between which is at increased difficulty. You can give your ships different orders to turn more, move more, shoot more, and what have you, and different weapons have different accuracy ratings and special rules and all that jazz.

The big innovation in terms of space combat is how shooting ranges are worked out. All weapons except the really short-range and easy-to-block weapons like missiles and such ("close action" weapons in DFC parlance - they can only shoot at short range and enemy ships can use their point defense lasers and missiles to shoot them down) have infinite range - given the right circumstances, you could shoot at anything on the tabletop*, with the same chance of hitting as you would shooting at things that are nearby. You calculate range by adding your own ship's "scan" range - the sophistication of your sensors, if you like - and the target ship's "signature" - its heat signature, noisiness to sensors, whatever you want to call it. Ships have a base signature rating, which is different depending on faction and ship class, and their signature will increase and decrease as the game goes on as they use special orders and get "energy spikes". Want to burn thrusters to close with the enemy or make a rapid course change? It'll make you easier to target. Want to fire all your weapons systems? It'll make you a lot easier to target. Want to go "silent running" and coast silently through the void? It'll make you much harder to target. It's a clever system that allows for wrinkles like active scan orders, a sort of sonar "ping" that gives a spike to an enemy ship at a cost of taking a spike yourself - useful for kicking an enemy ship out of silent running as well.

*Practically, of course, that doesn't really ever happen. The longest signature + spike + scan range currently in the game is 42" for a big Shaltari ship with its shields up and a big spike, being shot at by an enemy with a very good scan rating, but most ships are going to be valid targets from only up to about 20" or so.

The introduction of orbital layers is another unusual mechanic. Most ships will operate in high orbit, but objectives (which I'll discuss anon) will require you to get ships in low orbit or even down into atmosphere, each of which introduce their own potential problems. If you have a big ship in low orbit and it takes critical damage, its orbit might decay, sending it burning up into atmosphere. Atmosphere-capable ships are relatively safe down there, as shooting down into atmosphere is, from an orbital perspective, like shooting into a rather murky lake, and Mythbusters have shown us how hard shooting even into a clear swimming pool is. But in atmosphere you're limited to atmospheric speeds, which are only a couple inches per turn on a 4' x 4' board.

But really, the big thing, the big huge thing that makes Dropfleet different from, and potentially much deeper than, most spaceship combat games, is its heavy focus on objectives. The basic assumption is that battles are being fought in orbit, with the overarching goal of getting men (or, as the case may be, men possessed by evil alien brain parasites) onto the ground to capture critical locations - industrial or commercial sectors, military or orbital defence facilities, power plants or communication centers, and the like, or even space stations in low orbit. Even if you wipe up in orbital combat, if your opponent has more critical locations under his control on the ground, you've failed your fundamental mission and lost the game. Balancing your force between fighting ships and transports, and your transports between light strike carriers bringing small numbers of elite troops and bulk landers bringing large numbers of ground-pounders, is going to be the key to victory. Frankly, this aspect of the game looks potentially very deep, and makes the game much more than a simple exercise in choosing the shootiest ships and maneuvering around to blow up your opponent. I mean, you do that, and space combat is plenty fun and very satisfyingly explodey, but you absolutely must keep an eye on the objectives on the ground, which ones your opponent is moving troops towards, whether you can get troops there to contest, and what kinds of troops, and whether you want to give up ship-to-ship combat capability for specialized ships to bombard enemy troops for orbit, softening them up for your own brave troops on the ground. Lots going on in this part of the game, and I think it's what will really set it apart.

What About Factions?

Factions are the same as Dropzone Commander, less the Resistance who don't have spaceships, and plus hints sprinkled throughout the rulebook of a forthcoming sixth faction. Basically:

Image
The United Colonies of Mankind, the "viewpoint" faction, militarized and frankly kind of fascist human remnants who were kicked off Earth a hundred and sixty-odd years ago and whose launch of a campaign of Reconquest is what kicked Dropzone off. Their ships are solid all-rounders, with good armor, reasonable speed, good defenses and lots of railguns.

Image
The Scourge, the evil alien brain parasites what kicked humanity off Earth (and captured about 99% of the population for implantation of said brain parasites). Not nice guys. Their ships are, compared to the UCM, sort of glass cannons. Fast, very dangerous at close range, with relatively weak armor. They've got about a dozen ways to deliver hot plasma to you, and have (at the moment) the only stealth ships in the game to speak of.

Image
The Post-Human Republic, who split off from humanity just before the Scourge attacked because a little white ball told them to. Said little white ball is a very powerful and very mysterious alien AI, which (completely benevolently, I'm sure) has guided their development, turning them into a small, hard-hitting force of elite art deco cyborgs. Relatively slow and tough, with weapons that roll lots of dice at the expense of limited fire arcs.

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The Shaltari, literally immortal aliens who like warring amongst themselves almost as much as they like warring against everybody else. Very much the "shenanigans" faction, with teleportation and energy shields and weapons that ignore armor and weapons that ignore point defense and weapons that turn enemy ships in other directions and all kinds of probably bothersome nastiness of that sort.

Note the models. Dave Lewis is a wiz at designing mecha, and this game is no exception. Beautiful, beautiful stuff.

What's this about cheap starter fleets?

Oh gosh yes! A starter fleet of three cruisers and four frigates, which will set you up with a solid 500 points where 1000 is a tactically-interesting game that fills out a 4 x 4 table nicely, has an MSRP of 40 GBP, with the usual retail suspects offering the usual discounts. A box of two cruisers is half that, and a box of 8 frigates is 25 quid. All quite reasonable, for satisfyingly chunky and really I can't stress just how beautiful models. It looks like the resin releases (of which the very very sexy battleships are the first) will be a bit more pricey, but each cruiser sprue has everything you need to build any cruiser or heavy cruiser, so you'll be really well set with just the plastics.

Even having played just a couple demos, I'm quite comfortable saying: s' a good game! If anybody locally wants to give it a shot, MiJ and myself have fleets, and I believe at least one other forum member, maybe more, bought into the kickstarter. Ask around!
Last edited by The Other Dave on Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dropfleet Commander Post-Launch Effort Thread

Post by The Other Dave » Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:49 pm

For those of you (like me) who like automated help with these things, while there isn't a full-featured app for army building like Dropzone has (yet!), dflist.com is a nice list-building site, which checks legality and has ship stats (although, obviously, no text for special rules). Just to give folks some ideas about how lists look, here are the 1000-point lists I'm using as my ship collection and building guides. Note that I have no idea how effective these will be! :D It's based on my reading of the rules and so far extremely limited experience with the game on the table.

Scourge: [6 cruisers, 9 frigates - can't *quite* do it with just two starter fleet boxes]
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Scourge 999P - 997pts [I'm picking 999 points rather than 1000 because it limits you to 4 battlegroups - units of ships that act together on the battlefield. Going to 1000 bumps this up to 6. It actually probably doesn't make much difference - this force is buildable with 6 battlegroups, and they'll just be smaller and easier to destroy. Just personal preference, really.]
Scourge - 0 launch assets

SR12 Vanguard battlegroup (234pts) [This battlegroup's job is to get to objectives and dump elite troops on them. The Shenlong is the Gargoyles' escort in that sense.]
1 x Shenlong - 170pts - H [Heavy stealth cruiser with lots of multi-damage weapons that melt through armor at short range]
   + Fleet Champion (40pts, 3AV)
2 x Gargoyle - 64pts - L [Strike cruisers, speedy frigates that drop elite troops from atmosphere]

SR8 Line battlegroup (234pts) [This is a close-range beatstick battlegroup. Lots and lots of strictly short-range armor-melting plasma attacks, only nominal ranged attacks.]
1 x Wyvern - 105pts - M [Close action cruiser]
3 x Djinn - 129pts - L [Close action frigates]

SR15 Line battlegroup (295pts) [Another objective grabber. The Chimera, compared to the Gargoyles, is a bit of a giant target for the enemy, since it can't get down to the safety of atmosphere, so I gave it a pretty scary escort]
1 x Chimera - 105pts - M [Bulk troopship, that drops lots of non-elite troops, including the option of ground defenses to shoot down enemy dropships before they can hit the ground. Only nominal ranged attacks]
2 x Yokai - 190pts - M [Light cruisers, total glass cannons with good speed, cruiser-level firepower, light hull and armor and frankly laughable point defense. Their job is to get shot before the Chimera does, because they're kind of a threat you can't afford to ignore]

SR7 Pathfinder battlegroup (194pts) [Another beatstick battlegroup, this one focusing on range]
1 x Ifrit - 110pts - M [Cruiser with a F-off laser on the front]
2 x Harpy - 84pts - L [Standard beam-weapon frigates]
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http://dflist.com/s/#/share/a83a479864591
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UCM [6 cruisers, 6 frigates - two starter boxes]
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UCM 999P - 993pts [The big difference to the Scourge fleet, which I have no idea how effective it will be, is that instead of a bulk lander I have more strike carriers, spread pretty evenly throughout the fleet - lots of ability to get elite troops anywhere on the table, but only small numbers of elite troops at my disposal.]
UCM - 3 launch assets

SR12 Vanguard battlegroup (227pts) [Like the Scourge, this is a heavy cruiser escorting strike carriers. Same idea.]
1 x Moscow - 163pts - H [Heavy cruiser with lots of railguns. Very straightforward.]
   + UCM Commodore (40pts, 3AV)
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L [Strike cruisers]

SR13 Line battlegroup (274pts) [Mostly a beatstick battlegroup, but one strike carrier to sneak in and drop troops]
2 x Toulon - 70pts - L [Standard railgun frigates]
1 x New Orleans - 32pts - L [Strike carriers]
2 x Osaka - 172pts - M [Light cruisers - compared to the Scourge light cruisers, they're less heavily armed - but still have very impressive railgun armament - but have better defenses]

SR11 Line battlegroup (269pts) [Another mostly-beatstick]
1 x Berlin - 105pts - M [A standard cruiser, with an F-off laser and light railguns]
1 x Seattle - 132pts - M [My fleet carrier, with a modest number of bombers and fighters and some nice railguns]
1 x New Orleans - 32pts - L [Another strike carrier]

SR7 Pathfinder battlegroup (183pts) [Straight-up beatstick battlegroup]
1 x Rio - 105pts - M [Another standard cruiser, switching out the Berlin's massive laser for more railguns]
2 x Taipei - 78pts - L [Missile frigates, like the Scourge Djinns only effective at short range. Picked mostly because I couldn't afford more Toulons]
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http://dflist.com/s/#/share/0327480031457
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PHR [4 cruisers, 8 frigates]
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PHR 999P - 983pts [I might have gone a little bit too elite with this fleet - many fewer ships of Cruiser tonnage than either other fleet. My main goal, frankly, was a fleet I could build with the models I got in the kickstarter plus a single fleet box]
PHR - 4 launch assets

SR12 Vanguard battlegroup (254pts)
1 x Hector - 170pts - H [Heavy cruiser with lots of hull, heavy broadsides, and a massive laser to the front]
   + Vice Director (40pts, 3AV)
2 x Andromeda - 84pts - L [Frigates with launch capability, the only ones in the game. PHR bombers are slow but shooty, and launch gives the option for fighter support which helps the PHR's somewhat lackluster point defense abilities as well]

SR7 Line battlegroup (193pts) [Strike carriers plus escort]
1 x Ikarus - 115pts - M [A "vanguard carrier," with modest launch capabilities and plenty of shooting dice - compared to the UCM carrier, tougher, shootier, less launchy]
2 x Medea - 78pts - L [Strike carriers with elite troops - PHR strike carriers have modest bombardment weaponry to support the troops on the ground, which will be helpful]

SR9 Line battlegroup (287pts) [Very much a beatstick battlegroup]
1 x Orion - 107pts - M [A standard cruiser, with lots and lots of attack dice in quite limited broadside firing arcs]
2 x Pandora - 100pts - L [Frigates with F-you lasers on the front]
2 x Europa - 80pts - L [Frigates with broadside weapons batteries]

SR7 Pathfinder battlegroup (209pts) [Bulk lander battlegroup]
1 x Ganymede - 135pts - M [Compared to the Scourge bulk lander, tough, very shooty, and above all expensive. Lots of bombardment cannons to support the troops on the ground, as well as some modest broadside weaponry]
2 x Calypso - 74pts - L [ECM frigates, purely defensive. They have a special ability to make weapons shooting at another ship - the Ganymede with the big target painted on its side, say - less accurate. Their job is to help the Ganymede not die]
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http://dflist.com/s/#/share/5e39479952772
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Feel free to call me Dave!
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Miniatures painted in 2023: 252
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Epic scale: 9 vehicles, 56 stands of infantry, a whole buncha terrain
32mm-ish: 8 infantry

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Re: Dropfleet Commander Post-Launch Effort Thread

Post by me_in_japan » Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:08 am

Good thread, Dave :) Is this intended as a reference for info or is it somewhere others (ie me) can post DF related ramblings, too?
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eh, y'know. Stuff, and things

Wow. And then Corona happened. Just....crickets, all the way through to 2023...

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Re: Dropfleet Commander Post-Launch Effort Thread

Post by The Other Dave » Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:44 am

me_in_japan wrote:Good thread, Dave :) Is this intended as a reference for info or is it somewhere others (ie me) can post DF related ramblings, too?
I was assuming we would ramble about tactics and list-building, yeah. :D
Feel free to call me Dave!
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Re: Dropfleet Commander Post-Launch Effort Thread

Post by The Other Dave » Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:21 pm

Game Insight Through Stats: Anatomy of a Cruiser

Partly to help me get things straight in my head, and partly to show any interested parties how the game works, here's a post comparing similar ships among the four factions - in this case, each faction's basic gunline cruiser. Let's get our hands dirty!

Every ship has 6 basic stats:
Scan is the base range in inches that it can detect enemy ships - its effective scan range is almost always longer than this, due mostly to the next stat:
Signature, the range in inches from which it can be detected. Using silent running orders drops your Sig to 0, but aside from that you'll always be putting out enough heat and noise to be detected at this range, plus an extra 6 or 12 inches depending on your Spikes.
Thrust is how far you can move. All ships get a free 45 degree turn before moving, and that's it - you can take special orders to move more or turn more, but basically ships aren't all that maneuverable.
Hull is how many damage points you have. Importantly, the first time you get to half Hull, you take Crippling damage, which will knock out systems and quite often do more damage.
Armor is your armor save, which you get against each point of damage - unless a shot beat its hit roll by 2 or more, doing a critical hit. As we'll see, this can happen quite a lot.
Point Defense is how many dice you roll to defend against close action weapons or bombers. A 5+ cancels a hit, or you can spend two to cancel a crit.

UCM - the Rio Class, 105 points
The Rio could be taken as a baseline cruiser in the game as a whole. Scan and Signature are both 6", Thrust is 8", it has 10 Hull points and a 3+ armor save, and Point Defense of 5 dice. For weaponry it has a wing-mounted medium mass driver turret on each side, each attacking with 2 dice hitting on a 4+ and doing 1 damage per hit, and with each turret covering the front and one of the side arcs. The Rio's main armament is its chin-mounted heavy mass driver turrets, which have 4 dice hitting on a 3+ and again 1 damage, with a full 270 degree firing arc to the front. This means it can, if it takes a spike and fires all its weapons (on most orders, you can only fire a single weapons system each turn), bring 8 attack dice to bear against its front arc, half of which hit on a 4 (and thus crit and ignore armor one hit in three), and half of which hit on a 3 (critting half the time). Some simple number crunching suggests that's about 4.7 expected hits, 2 of which will be critical, meaning 2 damage with no save and 2.7 damage you can take an armor save against. It's also armed with missiles for close action - close action weapons fire all round, with range up to the ship's Scan range only, usually with a random number of dice (D6+1 in this case). The Rio's hit on a 4+, giving on average 1.5 regular hits plus 0.75 crits per volley.

Let's compare that to the Scourge's gun cruiser, the 115-point Sphinx.
It has the same 6" Scan as the Rio, but runs hotter, with an 8" Signature. That does mean there's a 2" range band where, all else being equal, the Rio could target it while it couldn't fire back - a narrow band to be sure, but there it is. Thrust is 10", so it's relatively speedy, it has the same 10 hull points but a save of only 4+. PD is a bit better than the Rio at 6. For armament, the most important thing is the basically-universal special rule the Scourge have, Scald, which means that within the Sphinx's Scan range enemies have -1 to their armor save - practically speaking, this simply brings most enemy's armor down to what the Sphinx's already is. It has three arrays of beam weapons, one in the 90 degree front arc only with 1 die, and one on each side covering, like the Rio's light mass drivers, a side arc and the front, each with 2 dice. All of these hit on a 3+ and do 2 damage. In that same front arc attack as the Rio, with the same weapons-free orders, that's 5 dice, hitting on 3's, doing 2 damage each - 3.3 expected hits, 1.7 of which will be critical, meaning 3.3 damage with no armor save and 3.3 you can save against - with a -1 if the Sphinx is close. It's also got more close action than the Rio, D6+2 dice hitting on 3's, giving 3.7 hits per volley, half of which are crits, and the regular hits will always cut your armor save by 1 because close action is always and only within Scan range. The Sphinx really wants to be within 6" of you, basically. (You don't want to meet the Scourge close-action cruiser, which sacrifices almost all ranged weapons for 2D6+4 close action shots. I can testify from experience that it is very scary indeed.)

The comparable PHR cruiser is the 107-point Orion.
PHR ships have a relatively good Scan range, 8" in this case, and the same 6" Sig as the Rio. Its Thrust is the same 8" as the Rio, and it has Hull 11, giving it an extra point of buffer before getting Crippled. Armor is 3+ and Point Defense is the same as the Rio at 5. We can see it has a pretty significant range advantage against the Sphinx - 16" to shoot it but only 12" for return fire - and it has a 2" advantage over the Rio. Its weaponry is trickier to compare directly - an 8-dice broadside to each side arc hitting on 4s, and a little turret in the front arc with 2 dice hitting on 4s. So it can't bring all its weapons to bear against a single target like the other two ships can - it really wants to either run with low spike around the edges of the battle, shooting broadsides into it from beyond return-fire range, or charge right into the middle targeting multiple enemies. At any rate, a broadside volley can expect 4 hits, of which 1.3 are crits, meaning 1.3 damage with no save and 2.7 you can save against. Not so great until you remember it can do that against two different ships if it takes a spike, giving 2.7 damage with no save, and 5.3 you can save against. If the front turret fires as well, that's another hit with a 1/3 chance of critting, for 0.3 damage with no saves and 0.7 with saves. If it can fire against targets in all three arcs, that's getting pretty significant - 3 damage with no save, and 6 with saves. Close action is (typically for PHR) not fantastic but at least accurate, with D3+1 attacks hitting on 3's. On average, one regular hit and one crit per volley.

Finally we have the Shaltari with the 110-point Amber.
Here's where things get shenanigan-y. Shaltari basically have two distinct stat lines, one with energy shields up and one with shields down. Shields raise their Signature significantly and turn off their point defenses, in exchange for a slightly better armor save that can, and this is as you can see from the math above very important, be taken against critical hits. Let's see how this shakes out. The Amber has a Scan range of 12", very nice indeed, and when its shields are down it has a Sig of only 3" - that's massive, giving it twice the range of the Sphinx in a sniping battle and an advantage of 7" over even the Orion. On the other hand, when shields are up its Sig jumps to a massive 16" and the tables are turned - even the Sphinx enjoys a 2" range advantage. So why would you ever put shields up? Well, Shaltari base armor is 5+, which is pretty bad, and it's only got 9 hull points. Even the shields only give a 4+, but remember that can be taken against even critical hits. If we consider, for example, a volley of fire from the Sphinx, with shields down the Amber will expect to take 5.5 points of damage from one volley (6 if within the Scourge ship's Scan range), easily crippling it - with shields up, that would be only 3.3 points, leaving it hurting but fully functional. So the Shaltari basically have to balance being stealthy but fragile versus being able to be shot at from very far away indeed, but having good defenses against those shots. Comments from people playtesting suggests that this is a tricky balance to find as a Shaltari admiral! The Amber also has a zippy speed of 10" and a very good (again, when shields are down only) PD of 9. Weaponry is pretty nice as well, two batteries each covering the front and a side arc with 4 dice hitting on 3s, doing 1 damage each. In that good old front arc all-out attack, that's 5.3 hits, 2.7 of which allow armor saves and 2.7 of which don't - not as beefy as the Sphinx, but a nice advantage versus the Rio. Close action is pretty poor, with 3 dice hitting on 4's. 1 regular hit and 0.5 crits per turn.

So we can sort of see how, even with pretty similar stat lines across the board - Shaltari shenanigans notwithstanding, most of these ship's Scan, Sig, Thrust, and Hull are quite close to one another, and they have similar numbers of attack dice - the different factions' ships will play quite differently, with different tactics dictated by those minor changes to ship stats. The Scourge will want to get in close to take advantage of their armor-melting rules and strong close action weaponry, and PHR will want to engage multiple ships at once, preferably with overlapping fire arcs from several allied ships, while the UCM can hunt alone more effectively with their more generous fire arcs. I have no idea what's up with Shaltari, but I imagine they'll be plenty scary in the hands of someone who's figured them out.

Whew. An effortpost describing how objectives work will follow in the next couple few days.
Feel free to call me Dave!
-----
Miniatures painted in 2023: 252
Miniatures painted in 2024:
Epic scale: 9 vehicles, 56 stands of infantry, a whole buncha terrain
32mm-ish: 8 infantry

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Re: Dropfleet Commander Post-Launch Effort Thread

Post by The Other Dave » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:33 am

Another Effortpost: [Seinfeld] What's the Deal with Objectives? [/Seinfeld]

So ship stats are cool and all (if very dry, sorry) but what about this mechanic you couldn't get enough of in the OP? What about objectives?

OK, here's the thing - 90% of the victory points in Dropfleet come from capturing objectives on the ground. These are shown on the table with "Clusters," each of which have a number of "Sectors" - you can think of Clusters as urban centers, and Sectors are tactically-important areas within those urban areas. Since a 4' x 4' map is meant to show an area about the same size as an average-sized American state or European nation, it's pretty easy to think of each Sector as just a big city of some stripe. Here's a picture from a demo I played with MiJ to give you an idea of how it looks on the table:

Image

This is looking basically right along the centerline of the table. A cluster of 3 sectors sits in the foreground, already with a Scourge armored unit occupying a sector, and there's a large cluster of 4 sectors in the middle and a second cluster of 3 at the far end of the table. You'll note that sectors are color-coded - in the foreground here we have a yellow Industrial sector, a blue Commercial sector, and a brown Military sector. Thing is, controlling a cluster isn't as simple as controlling more sectors than the opponent. Different sectors can have different values; in this case, the Industrial sector has a value of 2, while the Commercial and Military sectors each have a value of 1 - so controlling the industrial sector is required to get a majority of the cluster and control the objective. Sectors also have other bonuses - Commercial sectors, with all their big buildings, are harder to destroy, while military sectors actually have orbital defense weapons you can control and shoot at nearby enemy ships.

So to control a sector, you have to be the only one with any troops in it, and to control a cluster you need to control the majority of the sectors in that cluster, and some "weigh" more than others. To contest a cluster, you only need to control any of the sectors in it - so it'll happen pretty often that one player "controls" a cluster while the other "contests" it. Controlling is worth more VP than contesting, of course, but contesting 2 clusters is the same as or better than controlling one (different-sized clusters are worth different VP).

OK, how do you get enemy troops out of a sector? Ground troops are generalized into three types. You have "armored," or generally speaking "elite" troops, which get lots of attacks and have a good armor save, "infantry," regular troops that get few attacks and have a poor armor save, and batteries, which don't attack on the ground at all but have a chance to shoot down enemy dropships trying to land in the cluster. The fast, atmosphere-capable strike carriers only carry armor, and the slower, low-orbit troop transport cruisers carry infantry and batteries - but strike carriers can only drop one armor per turn, while bulk landers can drop six infantry, or three infantry and a battery, or even two batteries if you wanted to but that would be dumb because more batteries don't give you a better chance to shoot down enemy dropships. So, in general, one armored unit will win against three infantry because they have the same number of attacks but the armored unit's armor save is much better. So why use infantry?

Well, that's the other way to get enemy troops out of a sector - bombardment from orbit. You need bombardment-capable ships to do this, so you give up some ship-to-ship combat ability, but here's the thing. You attack and damage sectors directly (and they have damage points and armor saves just like ships), and each damage point causes collateral damage against a unit in that sector. And infantry have much better armor saves versus bombardment than armor do, since they can hide in basements or whatever. Note that it's entirely possible to bombard a sector into oblivion, having a pretty good chance of killing everything in it and removing it as an objective! I imagine objective-denial will be a Thing, as it certainly is in Dropzone. And no, you can't bombard sectors with your troops in them. But in general, if the enemy has bombardment-capable ships, infantry are going to be safer from them on the ground than armor.

So here's where things get thinky. Strike carriers are frigate-class vessels that can generally get to an objective quickly, but have to drop down into atmosphere to deploy troops - it'll take time to redeploy to another cluster, since they'll have to come back up to low orbit (since atmospheric movement, remember, is super-slow) and then down again to atmo at the new cluster, during which movement they're quite vulnerable to shooting, since they're frigates. Then you have troopships, which are cruiser-class vessels and a bit slower in orbit, but deploy troops from low orbit, meaning they can get to a different cluster relatively easily - but on the other hand are bigger targets, since ships in atmo are really hard to hit and ships in orbit... aren't. One armored unit will tend to beat three infantry units in a straight-up fight, but the troopship can deploy six infantry in the time a strike carrier can deploy one armor. Plus the troopship can deploy batteries, shooting down a third of incoming dropships (and two-thirds of bulk landers from troopships). Plus armored units will fare much less well against bombardment than infantry. The fact that you'll need a couple turns to redeploy your troopships means you'll have to be able to assess your victory chances with what you have on the ground in a cluster before you move your troopships to leave them unsupported a couple turns in advance - in a generally 6-turn game.

Unless, of course, you're Shaltari, who can teleport troops between clusters as long as they have a chain of gates and motherships and whose lander-analogues always act as low-powered batteries and yada yada yada shenanigans.
Feel free to call me Dave!
-----
Miniatures painted in 2023: 252
Miniatures painted in 2024:
Epic scale: 9 vehicles, 56 stands of infantry, a whole buncha terrain
32mm-ish: 8 infantry

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The Other Dave
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Re: Dropfleet Commander Post-Launch Effort Thread

Post by The Other Dave » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:22 am

The first corvette render preview got posted recently:

Image

I'm not sure! :D I mean, most Scourge vehicles in Dropzone don't look great in render either, but hmm. It does at least fit the general Scourge "space sea life" theme - space whale cruisers, space trilobite battleships, and now space manta ray corvettes.
Feel free to call me Dave!
-----
Miniatures painted in 2023: 252
Miniatures painted in 2024:
Epic scale: 9 vehicles, 56 stands of infantry, a whole buncha terrain
32mm-ish: 8 infantry

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me_in_japan
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Re: Dropfleet Commander Post-Launch Effort Thread

Post by me_in_japan » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:29 am

hhmmn. I, like most folks it seems, kind of envisioned a corvette as being a bit more...long and sleek, as opposed to this flat and sleek chap.

Will ponder my opinion further...
current (2019) hobby interests
eh, y'know. Stuff, and things

Wow. And then Corona happened. Just....crickets, all the way through to 2023...

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The Other Dave
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Re: Dropfleet Commander Post-Launch Effort Thread

Post by The Other Dave » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:12 pm

Want long and sleek?

Image

Hmm - I think he may just be up against the hard lower edge of "size of ship" versus "size of greeblies" in the scale he's working with. Judging from the flying base stem socket you can kind of see, this guy's probably on the order of 2cm long, maybe 3 on the outside.
Feel free to call me Dave!
-----
Miniatures painted in 2023: 252
Miniatures painted in 2024:
Epic scale: 9 vehicles, 56 stands of infantry, a whole buncha terrain
32mm-ish: 8 infantry

User avatar
The Other Dave
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 5103
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 3:46 am
Location: Nagoya
Contact:

Re: Dropfleet Commander Post-Launch Effort Thread

Post by The Other Dave » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:13 pm

Now we're talking!

Image

The UCM's corvette restores my faith in humanity.
Feel free to call me Dave!
-----
Miniatures painted in 2023: 252
Miniatures painted in 2024:
Epic scale: 9 vehicles, 56 stands of infantry, a whole buncha terrain
32mm-ish: 8 infantry

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