The Horus Heresy

This forum is for discussion of GW and their games.
Post Reply
User avatar
Primarch
Evil Overlord
Posts: 11392
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:33 am
Location: Nagoya
Contact:

The Horus Heresy

Post by Primarch » Sat Apr 09, 2022 2:40 pm

So, GW have announced that the Horus Heresy is officially getting a second edition, along with support from the main business, rather than being primarily a Forge World effort. So, as a big HH fan, I guess it's up to me to make the 'Let's Be Heretics' post and promote the game.

So what is the Horus Heresy?
The Horus Heresy is the big civil war that took place 10,000 years prior to the current Warhammer 40,000 setting. It's the reason the Imperium is a xenophobic, totalitarian dystopia, rather than the xenophobic, totalitarian utopia the Emperor envisaged. Seriously, there is a massive set of novels about it and it features in all the lore sections of all the 40K core rules. Long story short, the Emperor created 20 Primarchs to lead 20 Legions of Space Marines (2 got lost along the way though). Horus was his favourite Primarch, so the Emperor named him Warmaster and gave him control of the entire Great Crusade while he went back to Terra to work on the next stage of his plan. Unfortunately Chaos got involved and Horus joined the dark side. Half of the Imperium sided with him and a massive, galaxy-wide war was fought.

What is the Horus Heresy game?
Originally made as a variant of 40K back during 5th ed, Warhammer 30K wound up sticking with something close to 7th edition when 40K crossed the rubicon into 8th. The new edition looks to still be part of the 3rd through 7th ed family of 40K rules, though with a few ideas drawn from 8th. It still uses templates and vehicle facings matter. Unlike 9th, there are no stratagems or command points (that we know about). Instead you get Reactions. During each of your opponent's phases (Move, Shoot, Assault), one of your units can react to something they do, such as firing overwatch or counter-attacking. A lot of the playtest rules have been leaked online, but until we get to see everything in its entirety, it's impossible to say exactly how it will play, but it will be different from 8th/9th.

Wasn't 7th ed. an absolute sh!tshow of a ruleset?
Yes, it was. HH avoided most of the issues of 7th by having its own take on the rules called Age of Darkness. Having less armies to cater for also helped keep things manageable, plus HH never had the easily abusable detachment rules. It still had some issues, but it was better than the core 7th rules.

So it's all marines all the time?
Yes!

...Just kidding, though marines obviously play a very large role in the game. All of the legions start with access to the same army list, but also have a couple of unique specialist units and named characters. Each legion also has its own army wide rules and wargear. So generally speaking, each legion is a little different despite being built from the same (admittedly massive) range of units.
If marines aren't your speed, there are other options though.
The Mechanicum sports servitor armies packed with lethal and bizarre weapons. They have two sublists allowing you to focus more on cybernetic warriors or big siege guns if that is your thing.
Imperial Knights can be added to most lists, but you can field a force of pure Knights if you want.
The Solar Auxilia are an elite army of baseline humans armed with the best the Imperium has to offer.
In contrast the Cults and Militia list covers less elite human troops. The list had a toolbox approach, letting you pick and mix special rules. Want a horde of beserk mutants, no problem. A force of combat drug using survivors from the dark age of technology, easy.
The loyalists can build a force from the Talons of the Emperor, Custodes and Sisters of Silence basically. They both have access to a wider variety of toys than their 40K counterparts.
Finally, the traitors can use the Daemons of the Ruinstorm list. In 30K, daemons are a new and poorly understood force. To represent this the list is another toolbox set. You buy lesser - greater daemons and slap special rules on them. It's far more flexible than the Daemon Codex.
Some of these armies have dedicated FW ranges, some can use parts of the 40K range. The Cults and Daemons lists don't have any official models, you can use what you like. When 2nd ed. drops, the rumour is that there will be index books for Loyalists Marines, Traitor Marines, and "Other" armies. GW have yet to confirm if the third book will include all of the armies above.

What about Xenos?
There are no official rules for using Xenos in the HH, and GW haven't said that there will be. In 1st ed, you could technically field a 7th ed. Xeno army and do okay, but the designers always said that that wasn't something they considered when writing rules. In universe, Orks, Eldar and Dark Eldar were all around, so hopefully 2nd ed brings a way to use them.

Is HH expensive?
Absolutely, this is GW we're discussing. The FW only armies like Mechanicum are ridiculously expensive. Surprisingly, the Solar Auxilia infantry can work out to be fairly reasonable, but their vehicles cost an arm and a leg. There are ways of easing the costs, but resin models cost a lot, especially with the FW Pound to Yen exchange rates. Some armies can be kitbashed with standard GW kits, some can't.

Can I use my 40K army?
Um...As mentioned above, Xenos aren't included (yet), armies like Tau, Crons and Nids just aren't around at that point anyway.
Some armies can cross over easily. Imperial Knights and Daemons are the easiest. Depending on weapon loadouts, Talons of the Emperor can work too. IG can drop into the Cults and Militia list fairly easily, or the Solar Auxilia if you have the right models.
But marines are where things get tricky.

On the one hand, they are your minis, do what you want with them.

On the other, 30K has very different aesthetics to 40K, especially for the Legions Astartes. Primaris simply do not exist in the setting. Neither do Razorbacks and a couple of other marine vehicles. Most importantly, power armour is different. Mk.VII, the standard for 40K marines isn't suitable, only becoming available to armies at the very, very end of the heresy. Bizarrely, the old Chaos models were great for HH but the new ones don't fit at all. (I have been using some Mk.VII arms when kitbashing as they are less noticeable than, say helmets or shoulder pads, and it's the only way to get enough chainswords/pistols without buying FW minis).
Legion army composition is different too. Tactical Squads ONLY have bolters and number between 10 and 20 models. Support squads ALL have the same weapon and number between 5 and 10 models, so that is 5 models with flamers or 5 with meltas, no mixing.
Finally, while there is some variation in legion colours, there aren't any other chapters, so no Crimson Fists or Red Scorpions for example.

Looking at things the other way, some 30K marine forces can port over to 40K fairly easily, though their weapon choices may not be as flexible or as varied.

Why play HH over 40K?
If you love 40K 9th ed., there really isn't a great reason to ditch it for HH 2nd ed. If you're looking for a change, maybe HH could be good. The aesthetics are different as I said, there is a lot of great background for the setting, and there are a load of cool things to play with that 40K doesn't have or limits your access to.

Can I field a Primarch?
Yes! They are very expensive and only available in games at higher points levels, but they tend to be awesome. Guilliman and Alpharius give you more strategic options. Konrad and Corax give you hard hitting assaults from out of the blue, Angron blends through infantry, Magnus does all sorts of psychic stuff. Lorgar ruins the galaxy for everyone. That kind if thing.

I'd like to try it, but...
I have two smallish armies ready to go (Ultramarines and Word Bearers), plus I have several other legions at various stages of painting underway, so as soon as the rules drop, I'll be able to run demos.
Painted Minis in 2014: 510, in 2015: 300, in 2016 :369, in 2019: 417, in 2020: 450

Jye Nicolson
Legend
Posts: 1852
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:04 pm

Re: The Horus Heresy

Post by Jye Nicolson » Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:25 am

I'm not planning on getting on this in a big way, due to that road leading to much resin. And I do really like 9th edition.

But I'd be super happy to give it a go with my Knights or whatever force of Marines would make sense (most of my stuff is Primaris scale even if I run it as Firstborn, but then again if they're selling a big box of cheap beakies I'm not likely to let that go past).

Edit: might be a friendlier way to use my Custodes models too.

User avatar
Primarch
Evil Overlord
Posts: 11392
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:33 am
Location: Nagoya
Contact:

Re: The Horus Heresy

Post by Primarch » Sat May 07, 2022 10:33 am

Loads of new stuff coming for the Heresy in glorious plastic.

New Starter Box containing 40x Tactical Marines, 10x Terminators, 1x Contemptor, 1x Spartan, 2x Characters plus full rules, dice etc. The rumour was that it would cost 240gbp, but the reveal said that it would be less than 200gbp, so somewhere in the region of the new Ash Wastes set for Necromunda, or the Indomitus set for 9th ed 40K.
Image

300 page army books for Loyalist and Traitor legions. (No word on non-marine armies just yet, but they are on the way).
Image

Boxed sets containing 20x Tactical Marines in Mk.III, Mk.IV or Mk.VI armour.
Image
Image
Image
Worth noting that the Mk.III set contains 2 each of Heavy Bolter, Meltagun and Plasmagun. The Mk.IV contains 2 each of Missile Launcher, Heavy Bolter, Meltagun, Plasmagun, Flamer and Combi-melta/plasma/flamer. The Mk.VI only contains bolters, but it does have bayonet options. Assault weapons like pistols and chainswords are not included in any of the sets beyond a few sergeant options.

Special and Heavy weapons sets, mainly for Mk.VI, but should fit all marks with a little conversion work.
Image
Image
Image
Image

A plastic Heresy-style Rhino with new weapon options.
Image

And finally, the new Kratos Battle Tank. Apparently it's bigger than a Land Raider, this thing has all of the guns you could want to kill anything you'd like.
Image
Image

Needless to say, I am very happy right now.
Painted Minis in 2014: 510, in 2015: 300, in 2016 :369, in 2019: 417, in 2020: 450

Jye Nicolson
Legend
Posts: 1852
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:04 pm

Re: The Horus Heresy

Post by Jye Nicolson » Sun May 08, 2022 4:15 am

That stuff is going to be hard to resist! They'll sell that big box to a lot of 40k players, let alone all those glorious boxes of guns.

User avatar
Primarch
Evil Overlord
Posts: 11392
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:33 am
Location: Nagoya
Contact:

Re: The Horus Heresy

Post by Primarch » Tue May 10, 2022 12:43 am

Jye Nicolson wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 4:15 am
That stuff is going to be hard to resist! They'll sell that big box to a lot of 40k players, let alone all those glorious boxes of guns.
30K minis obviously have a lot of crossover utility with 40K, and this boxed set is an easy way to get a solid core for an army in either setting. Most loyalist legions use similar colour schemes in both, (Dark Angels being the obvious exception, but Space Wolves originally wore dark grey), so the option for a dual purpose force is available. The traitors had some more noticeable changes, both in terms of colour and the number/type of body parts they had, so it is a but tougher to use this box for a 40K CSM army and a 30K legion. That said, with a bit of effort it's not impossible. ToD's 40K Death Guard in their Great Crusade era colours look superb.
30K traitors tend to be less mutated than their 40K counterparts. The Word Bearers, being the first ones to drink the kool-aid were notable for being the most corrupted. Likewise the Emperor's Children went from zero to full-on nut-jobs in a very short space of time, being barely recognizable by the middle of the war. Other legions visibly changed at a slower pace, but each legion was big enough (100,000 marines on average) and spread widely enough that anything is really possible. Personally I've tried to keep my mutated bitz on my Word Bearers minis. For my World Eaters, there are a few Khornate symbols on unit champions, and I used a similar style for my Thousand Sons and Tzeentch.
Painted Minis in 2014: 510, in 2015: 300, in 2016 :369, in 2019: 417, in 2020: 450

Jye Nicolson
Legend
Posts: 1852
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:04 pm

Re: The Horus Heresy

Post by Jye Nicolson » Tue May 10, 2022 1:53 am

Yeah, I imagine there's a lot of opportunity for 40K players to take advantage of these kits while remaining focused on 40K but not boxing themselves *out* of being able to play 30K. I'm vaguely planning to do so at this stage, so I can at least play a game even if the Wolves are the wrong shade of grey.

User avatar
Primarch
Evil Overlord
Posts: 11392
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:33 am
Location: Nagoya
Contact:

Re: The Horus Heresy

Post by Primarch » Tue May 10, 2022 3:37 am

Power Armour and You
With 3 sets of power armour being (re)released at the same time, you may be wondering what the difference is.
My own grognardiness aside, in game terms all power armour marks are the same. (Terminator armour rules do vary between types though). The choice is purely an aesthetic one.
In lore terms, Mk.I armour never saw use outside of the Sol system. Mk.VII (ie 40K standard armour) didn't go into full production until the end of the Heresy. An Imperial Fists army could maybe get away with one or two models as prototypes, but it's kind of persona non grata in the system.
Mk.II armour was mainly used at the start of the Crusade by every legion. Good luck getting models wearing it though as it is limited to a few FW minis.
Mk.III was an upgrade to Mk.II with extra armour. It was highly favoured by legions that fought brutal, head-on conflicts or siege work.
Mk.IV is the most advanced armour, with smooth clean lines. It was the replacement for Mk.II for every legion. Maintenance was difficult, but it was popular with legions with the technical skills to operate it, or who valued the suit's improved functions.
Mk.V is not a real mark of armour, mainly being a catch all term for "Our supply lines are busted, just stick whatever scraps we have together". The only full Mk.V suits are from FW, but you can kitbash any other armour together and call it Mk.V. Legions that lacked the craftsmanship or the logistics to keep their warriors well equipped made the most use of this style.
Mk.VI is the lightest (and stealthiest) armour. It was very popular with the Raven Guard and Alpha Legion, it was used extensively in the Battle for Terra by both sides and features in a lot of the older artwork from way back in the early days of GW's lore-writing.

All of the above should be seen as a generalization. Every legion had access to every style, had at least a few competent techmarines and looted equipment when necessity demanded. You can do an entire force in one style, vary armour marks between units, vary the armour within units, or just flat out mix and match components on each figure and still have everything fit the lore. It is very much a matter of personal taste and your image of your legion.

In addition to the HH kits, you can make use of some 40K parts.
Thousand Sons rubric marines are compatible with Mk.IV.
Old style Chaos Marines can add some detail to your traitors.
Old Berserkers are handy for World Eaters.
The Space Wolves and Dark Angels boxes are really good for the 30K setting.
The Blood Angels box has a few useful parts to bling up your officers.
There are also loads of 3rd party and 3D printable bits you can look at too.
Painted Minis in 2014: 510, in 2015: 300, in 2016 :369, in 2019: 417, in 2020: 450

User avatar
kojibear
Legend
Posts: 1678
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:00 am
Location: Nagoya

Re: The Horus Heresy

Post by kojibear » Thu May 12, 2022 2:34 am

The Warhammer community website is posting introductions to the various Astartes legions.

So far they have done:

The Dark Angels:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/202 ... rk-angels/

The Emperors' Children:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/202 ... -children/

User avatar
Primarch
Evil Overlord
Posts: 11392
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:33 am
Location: Nagoya
Contact:

Re: The Horus Heresy

Post by Primarch » Thu May 12, 2022 11:58 am

The Dark Angels should be very flexible, able to customize units to excel in a given role. Their unique reaction Angels of Death gives them the Fear rule. For those players who remember 5th-7th, you're probably wondering why that is at all useful. Well, in 30K marines don't have 'And They Shall Know No Fear.' Fear reduces the Ld of enemy units, making it easier to make them break. Meanwhile the Dark Angels unit is itself Fearless (or at least Stubborn), so should pass any pesky morale checks it is forced to make.

The Emperor's Children should excel in assault. Their Flawless Execution lets them hit before most opponents when they charge. Standard marines will strike at initiative 5 rather than 4, reducing the amount of attacks they'll receive in return, but more importantly, Power Fists and other AP2 weapons will strike at initiative 2, which should let units like terminators kill off most things that could bypass their own armour.

I'm looking forwards to the next preview.
Painted Minis in 2014: 510, in 2015: 300, in 2016 :369, in 2019: 417, in 2020: 450

User avatar
Primarch
Evil Overlord
Posts: 11392
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:33 am
Location: Nagoya
Contact:

Re: The Horus Heresy

Post by Primarch » Thu May 12, 2022 1:04 pm

Primarch wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 11:58 am
I'm looking forwards to the next preview.
Speaking of...
Iron Warriors.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/202 ... -warriors/
It looks like they're the army you want if you enjoy making vehicles go `BOOM', due to their guns getting +1S against most big targets. They also have an option to have slightly shorter ranges on their bolters in exchange for gaining the pinning rule.
Painted Minis in 2014: 510, in 2015: 300, in 2016 :369, in 2019: 417, in 2020: 450

Post Reply

Return to “Games Workshop”