Q's about Daemons and Chaos

[Primarch]

thats rather missing the point (probably deliberately, knowing you. You aint daft...)

Yup

no cult troops (which CSM codex are you reading? Aint no cultists in thar, chief...)

I said cult troops, not cultists. Cult troops is the name given to Bezerkers, Noise Marines, Plague Marines and Thousand Sons.

its because in its current form the codex does not allow players to play fluffy chaos armies. The chaos fluff says that chaos, by its nature, is incredibly varied. The current codex is inherently not so.

Actually, by playing a Mono army you're removing variation from your army. The codex does allow you to play a fluffy list, but a mono army is just one part of the fluff.

Spikey Bitz (oh wait, they took those away too...)

Quite sensibly too. How many spikey parts are on Dark Eldar, Nid and Ork models? Quite a few I'd wager. Plus they were the same as master crafted weapons, cheaper AND you could still take MC weapons.

old rules: meh, do what ya like. its chaos. Have fun, y'know?
current rules: All chaos players must play black legion. you can paint em a different colour if you like, but you aint fooling anyone. theyre black legion, really.

I think the theme they were going for (and this has been mentioned by Mr. Thorpe) was Warbands. Like in the old Chaos rules where you'd get lots of different, wierd and wonderful stuff thrown together. Mind you, Codex Space Marines says right at the start of the book. "This book is about Ultramarines, we may have thrown other stuff in there for some of those other guys, but Ultramarines! F#*& Yeah!" so dont start b1tching to me about how your codex seems a little biased towards one group in the codex.

At the end of the day, any army is an investment in terms of money, effort and love. You had ample opportunity going into your nurglies to read the codex and make a decision, which you did. Complaining about it after the fact just seems a wee bit silly. You can hope the codex will change next time it comes around, but then again, they might go the Tyranid route and basically tell you "Snap all the arms off your models now, because you really shouldn't use the old wargear anymore."

Oh, btw Dreadnoughts and Rhinos dont get Mark of Nurgle so why do you take them and not Defilers?

[me_in_japan]

cos rhinos can be possessed and the FW dred is a bitchin' cool model and so clearly nurgle that Im letting the no-mark thing slide.

Actually, by playing a Mono army you're removing variation from your army.

true, true, but its me making the decision, not them making it for me. I'm not saying you should be able to include the entire codex in your army every time, Im saying you should be able to build a large variety of themed armies from it. And they should be able to win, sometimes (and lose sometimes, too. No overpowering, plz)

I think the theme they were going for (and this has been mentioned by Mr. Thorpe) was Warbands

well did they ever miss. "customisable" and "random shit thrown together" are not the same thing. Theme. Theme is the big thing missing from the current codex. You cant theme an army with it, rules-wise.

they might go the Tyranid route and basically tell you "Snap all the arms off your models now, because you really shouldn't use the old wargear anymore."

cant say Id enjoy that, but if it meant I could take marines, traitor IG and plaguebearers in the same army togetehr, Id suck it down and smile

[Primarch]

cos rhinos can be possessed and the FW dred is a bitchin' cool model and so clearly nurgle that Im letting the no-mark thing slide.

Defilers come 'ready-possessed.' You dont even need to pay extra for it.

I'm not saying you should be able to include the entire codex in your army every time, Im saying you should be able to build a large variety of themed armies from it. And they should be able to win, sometimes (and lose sometimes, too. No overpowering, plz)

By my count, of the 23 units (not named characters) in the book, you can make 16 of them fit your "theme" (possession and specific Mark), thats quite a good selection for any themed army. As for "all unit type X" armies, most books suffer from not being able to field entire armies of a certain unit type and for those that can its usually all they can do and they STILL dont get much unit selection. Lets look at Deathwing for example. For an army that fits my theme of Dark Angel 1st company I can take 1 HQ, 1 unit type for troops, 1 vehicle type for elite, nothing in fast and 1 vehicle type for heavy support. Themed armies have LIMITED selections. Thats why its a themed list.

they might go the Tyranid route and basically tell you "Snap all the arms off your models now, because you really shouldn't use the old wargear anymore."

cant say Id enjoy that, but if it meant I could take marines, traitor IG and plaguebearers in the same army togetehr, Id suck it down and smile

Nope, new Nid dex was just "All your old wargear is either worthless or cant be used in the same configuration as before. BTW have you seen all our shiney new models?"

[me_in_japan]

Defilers come 'ready-possessed.' You dont even need to pay extra for it.

but not by a nurgle daemon. Granted, the FW thingey is very nice, and if it was in the codex Id happily remove it from my list of minges, but it aint, so Im minging

Lets look at Deathwing for example. For an army that fits my theme of Dark Angel 1st company I can take 1 HQ, 1 unit type for troops, 1 vehicle type for elite, nothing in fast and 1 vehicle type for heavy support

I agree entirely - Deathwing are really hurtin' for decent unit choice. The SM codex needs fixin' up too.

Themed armies have LIMITED selections. Thats why its a themed list.

weee~eell, not exactly. It is a tendencey they have, sure, but I see a themed army as one which can convey a certain character by both its rules and visually. Space Wolves are a nice themed army. Do they need their own codex? hmmn, not sure, but theyre nicely themed nonetheless. Can chaos do anything like that.

no.

Nope, new Nid dex was just "All your old wargear is either worthless or cant be used in the same configuration as before. BTW have you seen all our shiney new models?"

well i bet that sucked...

[Admiral-Badruck]

well My man I guess you are just going to be limited to the army you have made.

I guess you need to write your own codex man I am sure GW will not get around to it any time soon... as long as you are not playing in a Tournament I will play you and even if it is a tournament as long as you have done the play testing I am cool with it...

[Spevna]

I didn't have any trouble making a fluffy Khorne army

[me_in_japan]

I didn't have any trouble making a fluffy Khorne army

well then, youre clearly not being fussy enough

[Primarch]

I didn't have any trouble making a fluffy Khorne army

Those khorne guys of yours are just so cute and fluffy I just wanna hug them and love them and hold them tight and give them choccies and snuggle up close and....
Oh, not that kind of fluffy.


I guess everyone has different things they want out of a codex. M_i_J apparantly wants the moon on a stick from his.
To me, the current Chaos Dex allows for a wide range of units to be chosen and can produce (what I reckon to be) fluffy, cheesey and balanced armies in equal measure. I'm sure some folk will disagree, as is their right, and some won't. Ultimately you can either go the "make your own rules" way or the "wait and see what GW come up with next" way, both of which have their own merits and drawbacks.

[Spevna]

I do have one grip though.

I don't like Icons of Chaos. I don't like that the unit can suddenly stop being Khorney half way through a game because the bloke with the big scary flag dropped it.

[Admiral-Badruck]

That is lame.. I really think the codex need a bit of fixing...