Chapter House give GW the finger

[Miguelsan]

Not mine, it´s from a IP Lawyer on Dakka. I just followed the explanations and went to the court archives:

http://ia600405.us.archive.org/18/items ... ocket.html

to read some stuff. My beef with GW in this case is that on the hope that something will stick they are claiming ownership of everything under the sun and then some. An example (emphasis, smilies and comments in red mine)

Case: 1:10-cv-08103 Document #: 147 Filed: 01/19/12 Page 8 of 25 PageID #:15404847-7177-8316
9
None of the foregoing copyrighted works created in the United Kingdom are
United States works for which registration is required under 17 U.S.C. § 411(a)
We never bothered registering this in the UK lets see if the US Court is stupid enough and fails to realize it.(...)

Games Workshop also has a large number of well-known unregistered trade
marks (including names of armies, Chapters, and other products) including without limitation:
Adeptus Mechanicus, Assault , Alpha Legion, Black Templars, Blood Angels, Blood Ravens,
Cadian, Carnifex, Chaos Space Marines, Chaplain , Chimera, Crimson Fists, Dark Angel, Death
Watch, Devastator , Dreadnought , Drop Pod , Eldar, Elder Farseer, Eldar Jetbike, Eldar Warlock,
Eldar Seer Council, Empire , Exorcist, Flesh Tearers, Gene Stealer, Grenade Launcher wuut?, Halberd double wuut?,
Heavy bolter, Heresy Armour, Hellhound, High Elf because rpgs never used this before, Hive Tyrant, Horus Heresy, Howling
Banshee, Imperial Fists, Imperial Guard, Inquisition Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition, Iron Hands, Jetbike, Jump Pack 150% original, Land
Raider, Land Speeder, Legion of the Damned, Librarian bunch of ignoramus gamers are, Lightning Claw, Melta, Mk II Armour no army before ever used Mk to denote models,
Mk V Armour, Plasma the 4th state of matter belongs to GW, Predator, Rhino, Salamander, Scorpion, Soul Drinker, Space Wolves,
Stormraven, Storm Shield, Tactical , Techmarine, Termagants, Terminator Quick somebody tell James Cameron, Thousand Sons,
Thunder Hammer, Tyrant, Tyranid Warrior.

In very general terms the more fanciful your Trademark is the more protected will be (e.g. Tyranid) while generic words can never be trademarks unless they are unrelated to the item they name (Rhino for a tank would be ok, grenade launcher for a... grenade launcher never)

More legal brinkmanship this time with symbols on the miniatures, don´t drink while reading or your screen will pay for it.

Many of the symbols associated with the characters and armies of the
WARHAMMER 40,000 universe, as well as the accessories for these characters and armies,
have also become well-known and immediately recognizable to the many fans of the game as
used on and in connection with the respective characters, including without limitation: skulls ,
Wings (eagle wings, angel wings) , Lions , Griffon , Triptychs, Broadswords , Skull with horns ,
Storm bolter (gun) Sawblade with blood-drop, Clenched fist in a gauntlet Your honor we swear we didn´t copy it from battletech House Steiner, Snakes , Flaming
skulls All your skulls are belong to us, Flaming chalice, Salamander, Dragon/salamander scales pattern , Tau Symbol, Tau - Oval
vents, Tau - X marking on power/ammo packs, Tau – circle with diagonal line through it, Tau –
geometric grooves, Roman numerals (combined with) arrows, X crosses and inverted V AKA chevrons wonder where I saw that before, Cog ,
Iron hands icon – gauntleted left hand shown palm downwards , Overlapping/banded armour ,
Wolf fur , Wolf skulls , Wolf tails , Raven wings with blood drop in centre, I symbol (for
Inquisition), Scarab beetles, Spirit stones, Eldar iconography/symbols (seer icons etc), Eldar -
Spirit Stones, Eldar – decorative gems on weapons.

Gentlemen draw your conclusions as you might, years ago GW had a row with Vallejo over the attempt to trademark Ultramarine Blue, Bleached Bone and others... check the current names of the paint sets to see who won.

Sorry for the rant but sometimes can´t help myself.

M.

[me_in_japan]

Oh dearie dearie me - it would certainly seem like whoever is running the GW legal team should be seeking new employment. Never have I seen a more poorly constructed legal case. I mean, seriously, skulls?!?!?

I still think that CHS are the bad guys here, simply because they're cashing in on somebody else's good idea, and I really hope that GW come away from this case with some nice, clearly defined trademarks (but not, perhaps, skulls, flaming or otherwise). Best case scenario, CHS can make as many skulls as they want, but when they put said skulls on a suit of MkVII power armour GW can set the dogs on em. Lots of companies make powered armoured suits, but it's pretty clear to most folk when said suit is a rip off of a GW design. It would be lovely if somebody in the court could just say "look guys, let's just use our common sense here. This looks too much like that, ye canny make it. This is borderline, so it's ok. Alright? Let's all go home. Case closed."

But as we all know, expecting lawyers to exercise common sense is like expecting a budgie to be able to whistle beethovens 5th symphony. It'd be cool, but I don't see it happening any time soon...

[Spevna]

Not mine, it´s from a IP Lawyer on Dakka. I just followed the explanations and went to the court archives:

http://ia600405.us.archive.org/18/items ... ocket.html

to read some stuff. My beef with GW in this case is that on the hope that something will stick they are claiming ownership of everything under the sun and then some. An example (emphasis, smilies and comments in red mine)

Case: 1:10-cv-08103 Document #: 147 Filed: 01/19/12 Page 8 of 25 PageID #:15404847-7177-8316
9
None of the foregoing copyrighted works created in the United Kingdom are
United States works for which registration is required under 17 U.S.C. § 411(a)
We never bothered registering this in the UK lets see if the US Court is stupid enough and fails to realize it.(...)

Games Workshop also has a large number of well-known unregistered trade
marks (including names of armies, Chapters, and other products) including without limitation:
Adeptus Mechanicus, Assault , Alpha Legion, Black Templars, Blood Angels, Blood Ravens,
Cadian, Carnifex, Chaos Space Marines, Chaplain , Chimera, Crimson Fists, Dark Angel, Death
Watch, Devastator , Dreadnought , Drop Pod , Eldar, Elder Farseer, Eldar Jetbike, Eldar Warlock,
Eldar Seer Council, Empire , Exorcist, Flesh Tearers, Gene Stealer, Grenade Launcher wuut?, Halberd double wuut?,
Heavy bolter, Heresy Armour, Hellhound, High Elf because rpgs never used this before, Hive Tyrant, Horus Heresy, Howling
Banshee, Imperial Fists, Imperial Guard, Inquisition Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition, Iron Hands, Jetbike, Jump Pack 150% original, Land
Raider, Land Speeder, Legion of the Damned, Librarian bunch of ignoramus gamers are, Lightning Claw, Melta, Mk II Armour no army before ever used Mk to denote models,
Mk V Armour, Plasma the 4th state of matter belongs to GW, Predator, Rhino, Salamander, Scorpion, Soul Drinker, Space Wolves,
Stormraven, Storm Shield, Tactical , Techmarine, Termagants, Terminator Quick somebody tell James Cameron, Thousand Sons,
Thunder Hammer, Tyrant, Tyranid Warrior.

In very general terms the more fanciful your Trademark is the more protected will be (e.g. Tyranid) while generic words can never be trademarks unless they are unrelated to the item they name (Rhino for a tank would be ok, grenade launcher for a... grenade launcher never)

More legal brinkmanship this time with symbols on the miniatures, don´t drink while reading or your screen will pay for it.

Many of the symbols associated with the characters and armies of the
WARHAMMER 40,000 universe, as well as the accessories for these characters and armies,
have also become well-known and immediately recognizable to the many fans of the game as
used on and in connection with the respective characters, including without limitation: skulls ,
Wings (eagle wings, angel wings) , Lions , Griffon , Triptychs, Broadswords , Skull with horns ,
Storm bolter (gun) Sawblade with blood-drop, Clenched fist in a gauntlet Your honor we swear we didn´t copy it from battletech House Steiner, Snakes , Flaming
skulls All your skulls are belong to us, Flaming chalice, Salamander, Dragon/salamander scales pattern , Tau Symbol, Tau - Oval
vents, Tau - X marking on power/ammo packs, Tau – circle with diagonal line through it, Tau –
geometric grooves, Roman numerals (combined with) arrows, X crosses and inverted V AKA chevrons wonder where I saw that before, Cog ,
Iron hands icon – gauntleted left hand shown palm downwards , Overlapping/banded armour ,
Wolf fur , Wolf skulls , Wolf tails , Raven wings with blood drop in centre, I symbol (for
Inquisition), Scarab beetles, Spirit stones, Eldar iconography/symbols (seer icons etc), Eldar -
Spirit Stones, Eldar – decorative gems on weapons.

Gentlemen draw your conclusions as you might, years ago GW had a row with Vallejo over the attempt to trademark Ultramarine Blue, Bleached Bone and others... check the current names of the paint sets to see who won.

Sorry for the rant but sometimes can´t help myself.

M.

From this day forth I shall refer to you as The Wise Spaniard.

[Admiral-Badruck]

My question to MIJ on this topic is Why are you singling them out as the bad guys. They are not the only ones making models that look like space marines. Scibor monster studios is doing more so called copy right infringement. Ultra forge make stuff that clearly Looks like GW stuff so do AOW, Heresy plague bearers are even in your Nurgle army, According to your chapter house stance. You should clearly be calling these companies bad guys as well. Or perhaps I do not understand your stance.

[Tenorikuma]

GW claims "Land Speeder" as a trademark? I think LucasFilm might have something to say about that.



I tend to think that copyright and trademark law is like welfare for lawyers. No one else profits from most of this throw-every-thing-against-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks litigation. And it can't be a coincidence that these laws are literally written (and not just supported) by legal associations like the MPAA and pushed through by bought-and-paid politicians.

[Admiral-Badruck]

And that is a wise Canadian

[Primarch]

GW claims "Land Speeder" as a trademark? I think LucasFilm might have something to say about that.



I tend to think that copyright and trademark law is like welfare for lawyers. No one else profits from most of this throw-every-thing-against-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks litigation. And it can't be a coincidence that these laws are literally written (and not just supported) by legal associations like the MPAA and pushed through by bought-and-paid politicians.

Do they actually refer to it as a Land Speeder in SW? I thought it was just a Speeder, though it has been a while since I watched those movies.

[Tenorikuma]

How dare Lucasfilm steal GW's ideas from 30 years in the future!

[me_in_japan]

My question to MIJ on this topic is Why are you singling them out as the bad guys. They are not the only ones making models that look like space marines. Scibor monster studios is doing more so called copy right infringement. Ultra forge make stuff that clearly Looks like GW stuff so do AOW, Heresy plague bearers are even in your Nurgle army, According to your chapter house stance. You should clearly be calling these companies bad guys as well. Or perhaps I do not understand your stance.

's not a stance, 's just an opinion tbh, I don't agree with anybody else stealing ideas which are clearly unique to a given company. If GW started making warjacks for fantasy I'd be behind PP all the way. I do differentiate between what chapterhouse (and scibor, fwiw) is doing and what (for example) heresy are doing with their blights. Heresy didnt invent plague daemons. Neither did GW. If it was up to me, Id say plague daemons (war daemons, magical daemons, and succubi) were in the public domain. Theyve been around for centuries. Space Marines in MkVII power armour, otoh, were definitely designed by jes goodwin. Put another way, super soldiers in power armour is OK. Super soldiers that really, really look a lot like GW space marines are not OK. WHere does that difference lie? in the eyes of that imaginary lawyer with the common sense...

[Admiral-Badruck]

I guess you are fully entitled to your opinions... but really a supper warrior in power armor of any kind is nothing invented by anyone at GW Jess Goodwin God bless him was influenced by heaps of Science fiction with robots and power Armour that one could say resemble the space marines...

the intent of all the companies is the same make money off the scraps of GWs game Chapter house just does not feel they need to sugar coat it ...