People moaning about Badruck's wierd army ideas

[Colonel Voss]

*cranks up Flight of the Valkyries*

[me_in_japan]

@badruck:

1) nope, not cheese at all. I agree - Planetstrike is daft as it is, so by all means crank up the daftness.

2) sadly, i concur. I hate the idea of flyers in 40k. Its completely against the scale of the game - seriously, a 40k battlefield is about the size of, say, 10 football fields. A modern day jetfighter can fly the length of the UK in about half an hour. Theyd be over and gone in an instant. They sure as hell wouldnt stick around for several "turns" worth of time. Flyers are best represented by a blast template.

Unfortunately, that wont shift many minis. I have a gloomy feeling that flyers are In for the foreseeable future. And yeah, based off the current iteration of flyer rules, if both players have em, fine. If one player has em, it becomes "hunt the flyer", rather than 40k. So yeah, we're all gonna have to buy flyers. And cases to carry the feckers in...

[Admiral-Badruck]

well I like the idea of flyers... they would not stick around but they look cool... I just wish there was a good way to play them in 40k they do not only look cool but I love the idea of a Thunder Hawk dropping bombs.. tanks...

[Primarch]

As far as the flyers in C:DE go, they work like really really fast skimmers, lots of jinking and evading and high speed turns. Valks from C:IG are more like choppers I reckon. Blackhawks or Apaches depending on the loadout. Likewise the Storm Raven looks like something for close air support rather than being a fighter.

Having Thunderbolts or Fighter Bombers does seem a bit out of place given the scale of the game, but on the other hand I love the idea of having a flight of TBolts soaring overhead as my Tanks grind the enemy beneath their tracks. Lets face it, the scale in 40k is dubious at best. Given the scale of the minis, bolt guns are effective up to 24 metres, and long range artillery is limited to around the 100m range rather than the 20+km most modern heavy artillery can reach. Just think of it as the plane has gone over the battlefield and has had time to come around for another pass. How long is a turn supposed to take anyway? Jet Fighters, Bombers and Drop Ships are cool, so lets not lose sight of that.

Flyers as they stand now (with the Apoc rules) are overpowered somewhat in the current rules set unless the enemy has AA guns or flyers of their own. Tempus Fugitives (a UK web site and events team) have proposed the following to allow flyers into games.

If you field a flyer, all your opponent's pintle mounted and defensive weapons become AA guns. (ie. they hit on their normal BS). Any other gun may be upgraded to an AA gun for +10 points.

Obviously pintle mounted stormbolters arent going to do much, but Pintle-Combi-Plasmas will leave a dent. Plus, the option to make those twin linked Lascannons AA will make the nasty flying thing seem a lot less scary.

[Admiral-Badruck]

That makes a flyer a one hit wonder... any gun at 10 points is a bit cheap considering most flyers are armor 10 an the ones that are not are still not that tough... I would say 30points to upgrade to anti air... just because flyers are a bit expensive...

[Primarch]

That makes a flyer a one hit wonder... any gun at 10 points is a bit cheap considering most flyers are armor 10 an the ones that are not are still not that tough... I would say 30points to upgrade to anti air... just because flyers are a bit expensive...

Yes, it does rather. But if that one hit is against the enemy tank that bought the upgrade its probably worth it. Even needing 6s flyers can be brought down if someone is willing to throw the dice. Ork lootas dont lose much when they target one. Likewise anything with twin linked guns has a 30% chance of a hit anyway.
Flyers benefit from being able to decide where they want to be on the battlefield (limiting what can shoot at them) and add extra distance to the range (limiting return fire even more). In the same way, flyers can choose what they want to shoot at and if they have bombs, can hit two units a turn.

[Admiral-Badruck]

I have used flyers in as many games as people would let me... and I have never seen them do that much to shift a the battle... for the price I can have 2 Battle wagons... for each one flyer... or 30 ork boyz will all the trimmings... Ork stuff is dirt cheap but a THwak costs 1000 points with a D-gun on it.. that is like 4 boss terminator squads... or five 10 man Tactical squads in drop pods...

[Admiral-Badruck]

I think the latter are going to have more of an effect in the game...

[Primarch]

I think the latter are going to have more of an effect in the game...

Yeah, but having those guys in a flyer which drops them right where you need them will give them an even greater effect.
Like everything, flyers need to choose their targets well. When you used them against my guard they were very good. From all accounts, against M_i_j's eldar you wasted most of your time trying to kill one guy you couldnt hurt.

[Admiral-Badruck]

I killed everything but one guy in on the objective... again battle wagons would have been abel to clear him off for sure... but at least the flyers could not get shot by the cobra... not a bad trade off... because the boyz were getting crushed by the damm thing...