40k Tournament Armies

[Konrad]

I'm still not quite clear on what franz means by "theme". It sounds like you are talking about "spam". For me a "theme" is the look, feel, character, backstory of the army. A "Theme" army is one where the look and feel of the miniatures is the important thing and how "good" they operate on the table of secondary importance. "I play a Vulcan Drop Pod list." I would not say is a "theme", it's the army compostition strategy. "I have an army of like, dragon slaying space Knights who come screaming out of the stratosphere, smash into the enemy and set everything on fire." is the theme.

[me_in_japan]

^ what konrad said.

[me_in_japan]

I completely disagree with any form of soft scoring or TO created list controls. Peer judgement should be the only form of control on list building, at least as NagHammer stands just now. Build what you want, according to the rules in the book. If people think you're being an ass, live with the consequences. For me, the game of 40k starts when you sit down and build your list, and by the time you actually set up and roll dice, the outcome of the game is about 75% decided already. The build is where you win and lose, most of the time. I kinda feel like saying to someone "you can only take one of each unit" is like saying "in this tournament nobody gets a shooting phase." A novel idea it may be, but it utterly gimps some armies while playing right into the hands of others. It certainly doesnt improve game balance.

I do think a team tourney might be fun. As Dan said, 1000pts each, and with separate FOCs would be fine. Maybe have teams set up before hand (TO could pair logical teams) so team mates can talk strategy pre-game.

[Admiral-Badruck]

Just so every one is clear the Shogun Show down tournament was canceled about a month ago when no one sent me not even a single list...
I do not think it was because every one hates me although I am not so sure if mike the pike even still likes me
Tournaments in Japan are as good as dead I would love to play in them more often I have never had a single bad experience at one... I have never even seen "that guy" at one here in Japan...

I am sure people could have made the time to come and it is not like I sprang the tournament out of the blue at the last moment...I think there is just a general dislike of tournaments in Japan I am not sure any one has experienced any thing that bad at a tournament list wise or player wise... I guess I have not played every one but most people like to play and meet other players... if I get beat I just take it in good stride and try to learn from it... most of the good players like BOLS Goatboy seem like really nice guys and seem to know the game very well I would love to play one of those guys just to learn how they kick so much butt...

Alas most people in Japan are just not in to tournaments or even events out side of the normal ones... I guess that is just the way it is going to be..

[job]

Just so every one is clear the Shogun Show down tournament was canceled about a month ago when no one sent me not even a single list...
I do not think it was because every one hates me although I am not so sure if mike the pike even still likes me
Tournaments in Japan are as good as dead I would love to play in them more often I have never had a single bad experience at one... I have never even seen "that guy" at one here in Japan...

I am sure people could have made the time to come and it is not like I sprang the tournament out of the blue at the last moment...I think there is just a general dislike of tournaments in Japan I am not sure any one has experienced any thing that bad at a tournament list wise or player wise... I guess I have not played every one but most people like to play and meet other players... if I get beat I just take it in good stride and try to learn from it... most of the good players like BOLS Goatboy seem like really nice guys and seem to know the game very well I would love to play one of those guys just to learn how they kick so much butt...

Alas most people in Japan are just not in to tournaments or even events out side of the normal ones... I guess that is just the way it is going to be..

I have to say, 40k is taking a pounding these last couple of months. First it was price increases, now it is a discussion of tournament lists, which never seems to end happily in my opinion.

With all this negativity about 40k, I've shelved my 40k project and and now I'm focused on Warhammer, FOW and Cutlass. I decided to bow out of going to the Shogun Showdown, which I was all psyched up about going to (1k sounds like a fun sized tournament- the right size for Japan ), but all the disappointing conversations pretty much killed all my enthusiasm for it.

@ A. Badruck: While we all enjoy ragging on GW about prices, I think it is bad policy for a tournament organizer to also jump into a 11+ page thread on GW hating. I think it would be best for all 40k fans to start talking up the game instead of letting their grudges with GW show, at least not too much.

[Admiral-Badruck]

I am a TO? not according to the group.... hahaha last time I was a TO you could still get GW models for a reasonable price in Japan....

as for the 40k hate I have nothing against 40k but I sure love FB now I wish there was a bit more to the WHFB campaign not really much but hex taking...

as for TOing in the future not to keen really... it takes a lot of work there is no return on it I am now happy to participate in what others set up on saturdays... but all my date suggests that Tournaments on saturdays in Japan are doomed to fail.. until some one pulls one off I really cant be bothered...

[me_in_japan]

NOTE: In the below post I quote Job a few times. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, I just disagree with some of the things he said. Although Ive never met him, I have no doubt that he, personally, is a nice guy.
Disagreement =/= dislike. Please bear this in mind y'all...

(In fact, in the comments below Im trying, in my own somewhat babbly manner, to explain why I think disagreement is a good thing.)

I have to say, 40k is taking a pounding these last couple of months.

when, exactly, was 40k taking a pounding? So far as I recall, nobody has complained about 40k at all. GW has taken some flak, but 40k has been sitting pretty. Opining that GW policy is bad is not "40k bashing", in fact I dont think anybody has been 40k bashing on this forum, ever. We all have a very clear view of what GW is and what 40k is, and no-one seems prone to confusing the two.

Come to that, I don't see anyone complaining in this thread, either. Voicing opinions, yes. Voicing a number of different opinions, and attempting to convince others, yes. Outright complaining, no.

now it is a discussion of tournament lists, which never seems to end happily in my opinion.

does it need to? can people not just voice their opinions and, after failing to convince others of their viewpoint, simply agree to disagree? Where's the bad in that?


disagreeing with someone is not "being negative" and neither is saying that event A (price hikes/sales embargoes) is bad equivalent to saying that item B (40k) is bad.

I think it is bad policy for a tournament organizer to also jump into a 11+ page thread on GW hating.

Why? Does being a TO disqualify one from having an opinion? As has been pointed out many times in several threads here, GW =/= 40k. Surely he can organise a 40k tourney without approving of GW, no?

I think it would be best for all 40k fans to start talking up the game instead of letting their grudges with GW show, at least not too much.

I dont think we need to. We all play the game. We all like the game. We all know that we all do these things. Why point it out? If something is reasonably constant in a given community (e.g. 40k players think "I like 40k" or "I like GW") then it doesnt need to be repeatedly mentioned. However, GW's policy shift forced many people to re-evaluate how they think about the company (but not the game). These new opinions are a change from the status quo that we as gamers and forum members have been taking for granted. Thus, we feel it necessary to express these new opinions. Opinions which have not changed (i.e. "I like to play 40k") do not need to be expressed as they can still be taken for granted. Should anyone decide that they no longer like 40k, I'm sure theyll start a thread about it

OK, im done. Again, i know it came across as a bit ranty - anything I post after midnight usually does, but, if possible, don't nobody take it personally. it's just an opinion

[Spevna]

NOTE: In the below post I quote Job a few times. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, I just disagree with some of the things he said. Although Ive never met him, I have no doubt that he, personally, is a nice guy.
Disagreement =/= dislike. Please bear this in mind y'all...

(In fact, in the comments below Im trying, in my own somewhat babbly manner, to explain why I think disagreement is a good thing.)

I have to say, 40k is taking a pounding these last couple of months.

when, exactly, was 40k taking a pounding? So far as I recall, nobody has complained about 40k at all. GW has taken some flak, but 40k has been sitting pretty. Opining that GW policy is bad is not "40k bashing", in fact I dont think anybody has been 40k bashing on this forum, ever. We all have a very clear view of what GW is and what 40k is, and no-one seems prone to confusing the two.

Come to that, I don't see anyone complaining in this thread, either. Voicing opinions, yes. Voicing a number of different opinions, and attempting to convince others, yes. Outright complaining, no.

now it is a discussion of tournament lists, which never seems to end happily in my opinion.

does it need to? can people not just voice their opinions and, after failing to convince others of their viewpoint, simply agree to disagree? Where's the bad in that?


disagreeing with someone is not "being negative" and neither is saying that event A (price hikes/sales embargoes) is bad equivalent to saying that item B (40k) is bad.

I think it is bad policy for a tournament organizer to also jump into a 11+ page thread on GW hating.

Why? Does being a TO disqualify one from having an opinion? As has been pointed out many times in several threads here, GW =/= 40k. Surely he can organise a 40k tourney without approving of GW, no?

I think it would be best for all 40k fans to start talking up the game instead of letting their grudges with GW show, at least not too much.

I dont think we need to. We all play the game. We all like the game. We all know that we all do these things. Why point it out? If something is reasonably constant in a given community (e.g. 40k players think "I like 40k" or "I like GW") then it doesnt need to be repeatedly mentioned. However, GW's policy shift forced many people to re-evaluate how they think about the company (but not the game). These new opinions are a change from the status quo that we as gamers and forum members have been taking for granted. Thus, we feel it necessary to express these new opinions. Opinions which have not changed (i.e. "I like to play 40k") do not need to be expressed as they can still be taken for granted. Should anyone decide that they no longer like 40k, I'm sure theyll start a thread about it

OK, im done. Again, i know it came across as a bit ranty - anything I post after midnight usually does, but, if possible, don't nobody take it personally. it's just an opinion

^This

[job]

NOTE: In the below post I quote Job a few times. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, I just disagree with some of the things he said. Although Ive never met him, I have no doubt that he, personally, is a nice guy.
Disagreement =/= dislike. Please bear this in mind y'all...

(In fact, in the comments below Im trying, in my own somewhat babbly manner, to explain why I think disagreement is a good thing.)

I have to say, 40k is taking a pounding these last couple of months.

when, exactly, was 40k taking a pounding? So far as I recall, nobody has complained about 40k at all. GW has taken some flak, but 40k has been sitting pretty. Opining that GW policy is bad is not "40k bashing", in fact I dont think anybody has been 40k bashing on this forum, ever. We all have a very clear view of what GW is and what 40k is, and no-one seems prone to confusing the two.

Come to that, I don't see anyone complaining in this thread, either. Voicing opinions, yes. Voicing a number of different opinions, and attempting to convince others, yes. Outright complaining, no.

now it is a discussion of tournament lists, which never seems to end happily in my opinion.

does it need to? can people not just voice their opinions and, after failing to convince others of their viewpoint, simply agree to disagree? Where's the bad in that?


disagreeing with someone is not "being negative" and neither is saying that event A (price hikes/sales embargoes) is bad equivalent to saying that item B (40k) is bad.

I think it is bad policy for a tournament organizer to also jump into a 11+ page thread on GW hating.

Why? Does being a TO disqualify one from having an opinion? As has been pointed out many times in several threads here, GW =/= 40k. Surely he can organise a 40k tourney without approving of GW, no?

I think it would be best for all 40k fans to start talking up the game instead of letting their grudges with GW show, at least not too much.

I dont think we need to. We all play the game. We all like the game. We all know that we all do these things. Why point it out? If something is reasonably constant in a given community (e.g. 40k players think "I like 40k" or "I like GW") then it doesnt need to be repeatedly mentioned. However, GW's policy shift forced many people to re-evaluate how they think about the company (but not the game). These new opinions are a change from the status quo that we as gamers and forum members have been taking for granted. Thus, we feel it necessary to express these new opinions. Opinions which have not changed (i.e. "I like to play 40k") do not need to be expressed as they can still be taken for granted. Should anyone decide that they no longer like 40k, I'm sure theyll start a thread about it

OK, im done. Again, i know it came across as a bit ranty - anything I post after midnight usually does, but, if possible, don't nobody take it personally. it's just an opinion

I'm not going to read through all that, so I'm just going to address what you wrote towards the end:

Opinions of course are encouraged. I don't think I wrote anywhere Badruck or anybody else shouldn't express his opinion. I don't think I wrote anything against disagreement either.

BUT, when players run on and on about this or that negative point, or can't find any common ground (or highlight their differences of opinion), it doesn't help build enthusiasm for a game. I'm no expert, but it seems gaming circles are built and grow around some axiom of 'positive trends are self-reinforcing'. A good game system with good game support draws players which draws more players which springs gaming days and then tournaments which creates more excitement which...

Equally, when negativity springs up, players tend to leave and that well of energy just dries up.

As for tournament lists, I think this is nothing new. I think players will call cheese when they see it, but everyone's idea of a "competitive game" tends to vary so I think there will never be complete agreement across a gaming group.
Maybe the best thing to do is to either 1) always bring the list that represents the style you like to play, or 2) adjust your list to varying gaming styles your opponent prefers (more rounded lists or more competitive or 'themed' or... whatever).

[job]

I am a TO? not according to the group.... hahaha last time I was a TO you could still get GW models for a reasonable price in Japan....

as for the 40k hate I have nothing against 40k but I sure love FB now I wish there was a bit more to the WHFB campaign not really much but hex taking...

as for TOing in the future not to keen really... it takes a lot of work there is no return on it I am now happy to participate in what others set up on saturdays... but all my date suggests that Tournaments on saturdays in Japan are doomed to fail.. until some one pulls one off I really cant be bothered...

Well, I hope you feel appreciated by all the gamers when you try to organize something, in that sarcastic, cynical, hyper-critical, highly-demanding way of showing love that many gamers seem to adopt.

I know you like, Ogaki, and I'd try to make it up there to an event, but maybe a Nagoya location would bring players. After all, Joshin Day has done pretty well (although it caters to all game systems.) That or Yokaichi, which seems to be the center of Mie gamers.

I think you may have to prod around, ask a lot of questions to people, to try and land a date that is suitable for greatest number of players. Just a thought. I'm not sure how many players you would want, but surely with some planning you could get 4-6 players together.