Opinions please.

[dnanoodle]

After thinking about podding Sternguard a little more, I'd actually put my money on the DE. Half of the pods rounded up have to come on turn one. DE, with either first or second turn, can come in from reserves and laser/poison down a handful of marines (Sternguard are elites right, so 3 pods max).

As for 'Nids, noo way. Assaulting skimmers is a terrible way to bring them down, especially with flicker fields. The DE have 'Nid mobility beat in every way and have the shooting to bring down every unit in the 'dex without breaking a sweat.

Black Templars might even be able to spam Terminators against this even better. Units with THSS and 2 cyclone MLs plus tank hunters would be pretty ugly.

I do see your point about "what is spam?" however. Had that conversation with a friend the other day, actually. Honestly, I'm not 100% sure how to answer the question. Some really spammy lists are very fluffy, like anything in the IG book. Or the Green Tide. Or Guardians in Ulthwe lists. But the thing is, I know non-fluffy spam when I see it. I don't think this player finds the violent debauchery of DE Warriors and Trueborn to be so compelling that he made this list. The point was to min/max splinter cannons and Darklight with the cheapest options in the book.

To me, lists are cheesy spam when after the game you have the same bad aftertaste that youd have if you actually ate cheesy spam. Maybe it could be defined, but without doing so I think anyone who sees cheesy spam will know how bad it's gonna taste without even taking that first bite.

[Mike the Pike]

It's not the particulars of the list that are the problem. It's the attitude behind it. Everything is min/maxed, IC is only there to add bonuses etc. And on top of that it's just a DE flavoured version of Razor Back Spam or the Leaf blower. And a lot of armies can do it too. Here is a Slaanesh CSM version. I made it a little fluffy but could probably have squeezed in another squad if I wanted too.

1750pts of Purple Cheese

HQ - Lord MoS Combi Melta
Elite - 6 Vets - 5 Meltas - Rhino - Icon
Elite - 6 Vets - 5 Meltas - Rhino - Icon
Elite - 5 Vets - 5 Meltas - Rhino - Icon
Troops - 6 Marines - 1 Melta - Rhino - Icon
Troops - 6 Marines - 1 Melta - Rhino - Icon
Troops - 6 Marines - 1 Melta - Rhino - Icon
Troops - 6 Marines - 1 Melta - Rhino - Icon
Troops - 6 Marines - 1 Melta - Rhino - Icon
Troops - 6 Marines - 1 Melta - Rhino - Icon

Everything is in multiples of 6, Slaanesh's Unholy Number. Wow, I am the fluff king!

I could almost make this army with the stuff I had but would never dream of doing so.

Edit: A generic 2000pt version of the above could have 32 Melta Guns in 12 Rhinos + 2 Chaos Lords!!!

[dnanoodle]

It's not the particulars of the list that are the problem. It's the attitude behind it. Everything is min/maxed, IC is only there to add bonuses etc. And on top of that it's just a DE flavoured version of Razor Back Spam or the Leaf blower. And a lot of armies can do it too. Here is a Slaanesh CSM version. I made it a little fluffy but could probably have squeezed in another squad if I wanted too.

HQ - Lord MoS Combi Melta
Elite - 6 Vets - 5 Meltas - Rhino - Icon
Elite - 6 Vets - 5 Meltas - Rhino - Icon
Elite - 5 Vets - 5 Meltas - Rhino - Icon
Troops - 6 Marines - 1 Melta - Rhino - Icon
Troops - 6 Marines - 1 Melta - Rhino - Icon
Troops - 6 Marines - 1 Melta - Rhino - Icon
Troops - 6 Marines - 1 Melta - Rhino - Icon
Troops - 6 Marines - 1 Melta - Rhino - Icon
Troops - 6 Marines - 1 Melta - Rhino - Icon

Everything is in multiples of 6, Slaanesh Unholy Number. Wow, I am the fluff king!

I could almost make this army with the stuff I had but would never dream of doing so.

It gets way worse with Razorbacks. Having cheap transports with effective long range guns is one of the greatest strengths of that DE list.

Coteaz lists can get 3 Henchmen in a Razorback with a +1S Heavy Bolter for 62pts. And its psychic power lets it ignore shaken and stunned. Then 6 Dreads (half venerable) with 6x4 +1S Autocannon shots is only 700 something points. This is why I'm not into transport spamming. Those lists are weak against other versions of the same thing. It's like the nuclear arms race of 40k. An escalation of firepower and in the end no one really wins. IMO except GW, I mean, as it's all new armies that do this stuff best haha.

[Admiral-Badruck]

I guess when you put it that way. It makes sense that one could really see cheese if one looks for it.

I am not really convinced that steeler list is going to be that bad off but that is for an other debate.

As for the stern guard Pedro Kantor makes them all score.

Combat squads make it so the can split fire where needed and it makes them even more scoring units. As far as not getting them down all at once. Put some tactical marines in drop pods to get the three units of stern guard down first turn.

Also the DE player wants to go first. Let him last turn in objective is better IMHOrkO

[Admiral-Badruck]

It gets way worse with Razorbacks. Having cheap transports with effective long range guns is one of the greatest strengths of that DE list.

Coteaz lists can get 3 Henchmen in a Razorback with a +1S Heavy Bolter for 62pts. And its psychic power lets it ignore shaken and stunned. Then 6 Dreads (half venerable) with 6x4 +1S Autocannon shots is only 700 something points. This is why I'm not into transport spamming. Those lists are weak against other versions of the same thing. It's like the nuclear arms race of 40k. An escalation of firepower and in the end no one really wins. IMO except GW, I mean, as it's all new armies that do this stuff best haha.

I see what you mean that would be just silly and full of win for GW

[Spevna]

I think anyone who sees cheesy spam will know how bad it's gonna taste without even taking that first bite.

Cheesy spam FTW. Quoted for truth.

[Admiral-Badruck]

As for the taste of cheese and spam. I rather enjoy spam and cheese sandwich.

[ashmie]

Well, this image has been haunting my thoughts of late. What would I do if that was plonked down in front of me. If it were a tournament I wouldn't be alarmed. As someone who enjoys 40k but is easily put off by this kind of thing my first thought would be Yikes, and then, ye Gads this fella really wants to win. Then finally I would shrug it off and think, lets see how long my Ultramarines can survive for.
I would have wished he/she had spent a little more time on the painting though if my army was also painted.

[Admiral-Badruck]

Well, this image has been haunting my thoughts of late. What would I do if that was plonked down in front of me. If it were a tournament I wouldn't be alarmed. As someone who enjoys 40k but is easily put off by this kind of thing my first thought would be Yikes, and then, ye Gads this fella really wants to win. Then finally I would shrug it off and think, lets see how long my Ultramarines can survive for.
I would have wished he/she had spent a little more time on the painting though if my army was also painted.

But mate how do you feel a bout spam and cheese sandwich for lunch?

I am rather partial to them. Not that I am trying to hijack the thread it is just that I have not had one in a while and I just want to know if any one else likes them as much as I do.

[Mike the Pike]

On the subject of cheese, WAAC (Win At All Cost) is an acronym that is often bandied about when this sort of topic comes up. It's complete and and less well known opposite is FAAP (Fluffy At Any Price). I was wondering which acronym you lot think suits you best.

With apologies to 'Strictly Average' an associate of BOLS, I present the WAAC/FAAP continuum.

WAAC -------------------------*------------------------- FAAP

IMHO our Dark Eldar playing example player sits here:

WAAC -DEP-----------------------*------------------------- FAAP

I think I sit about here:

WAAC -------------------------*------MTP------------------- FAAP

What about you guys?

Edit: Spam is just awful. Spend the extra yen and get something decent to go with your cheese. Some nice ham, REAL bologna sausage or even turkey breast if you are feeling healthy. And make sure it is the kind of cheese that doesn't come in a 2kg block and/or was made anywhere in Japan.