Independence Day - June 23rd

[Spevna]

I feel much the same way as MiJ does, gutted and disappointed in my fellow Brits.

But, the more I'm reading in the aftermath, the more I'm geginning to understand the whys. I feel people underestimated the support that leave had in the more impoverished working-class areas of the country. There is austerity based anger out there, for which the EU became a scapegoat. In today's Guardian, there was a quotation from a Mancunian: "If you're rich you vote in, if you're poor, you vote out". For them, this was a protest vote from those with less, who were past caring about the implications of leaving. I think many saw the EU referendum as the only way to influence anything. Ironically they will get even more of the same right-wing policy which has hit them hard in the first place, judging by the likely successors.

Tldr: Bloody hell, this was a bad decision. Even Johnson looks shell shocked at what has occured.

A mate of mine, an Irish guy, lives in Yorkshire and says that this is the general vibe he has been getting from the people.

Anger trumps logic it seems.

[Primarch]

Anger trumps logic it seems.

Which seems to have come as a surprise to a lot of people, including some of the Leave voters themselves.

Looking things over in the aftermath, I guess a lot of people are rethinking their vote. There has already been a petition put forward for a second referendum on the UK government website. The petition got so many signatories it crashed the server. Technically the matter should now be brought up in the commons, though I'm not sure how well it will go over with the public.
European countries should be taking a long, hard look at why the British voted the way they did. Popular parties are gaining ground all over the continent against the long-term traditional political groups. Greece obviously feels hard done by in the Union and there are a few others where the working classes seem dissatisfied with the EU, at least judging by the calls for Frexit, Swexit and so forth.

At the moment, the UK economy makes up about 17% of the total economic output of the EU. By itself, it is a very big market, still in the top rankings of the world even after this fiasco. It's really in everyone's best interests to see both the EU and the UK come out of things in a positive way. The UK could be a big trading partner for Europe and the world. How they handle the 'divorce' will have an impact on both.

For the EU at least, getting rid of the UK isn't all negative. The UK has long been against the closer and closer nature of the EU's policies. We have constantly vetoed certain ideas (An EU army for example), that the EU can now push through if it tries. The EU no longer needs to make special provisions for their island neighbour, so they get more free reign to do what they like.

As for the UK, people are worried about how leaving the EU will change laws, rules and way of life. I've read knee-jerk reactions saying that the UK will lose access to the ECHR, EU product standards and access to international trade with EU member states. Well, as mentioned in the video above, the ECHR was a British idea, so it's not like they're going to start torturing people for fun. If UK companies want to do business in the EU, they will need to keep the same standards. Japanese firms already design products based to EU specs for example. As for trading with neighbours, there is nothing stopping the UK from negotiating new deals with EU states. Other countries certainly have.

This may be the biggest clusterf**k of all time, but as the saying goes, smooth seas don't make for skillful sailors. This is a big change to the world, but it needn't be a bad one in the long run.

Or we're doomed.
Who knows?

[YellowStreak]

This sums things up nicely:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptfmAY6M6aA

That is brilliant!

[Spevna]

Anger trumps logic it seems.

Which seems to have come as a surprise to a lot of people, including some of the Leave voters themselves.

Looking things over in the aftermath, I guess a lot of people are rethinking their vote. There has already been a petition put forward for a second referendum on the UK government website. The petition got so many signatories it crashed the server. Technically the matter should now be brought up in the commons, though I'm not sure how well it will go over with the public.
European countries should be taking a long, hard look at why the British voted the way they did. Popular parties are gaining ground all over the continent against the long-term traditional political groups. Greece obviously feels hard done by in the Union and there are a few others where the working classes seem dissatisfied with the EU, at least judging by the calls for Frexit, Swexit and so forth.

At the moment, the UK economy makes up about 17% of the total economic output of the EU. By itself, it is a very big market, still in the top rankings of the world even after this fiasco. It's really in everyone's best interests to see both the EU and the UK come out of things in a positive way. The UK could be a big trading partner for Europe and the world. How they handle the 'divorce' will have an impact on both.

For the EU at least, getting rid of the UK isn't all negative. The UK has long been against the closer and closer nature of the EU's policies. We have constantly vetoed certain ideas (An EU army for example), that the EU can now push through if it tries. The EU no longer needs to make special provisions for their island neighbour, so they get more free reign to do what they like.

As for the UK, people are worried about how leaving the EU will change laws, rules and way of life. I've read knee-jerk reactions saying that the UK will lose access to the ECHR, EU product standards and access to international trade with EU member states. Well, as mentioned in the video above, the ECHR was a British idea, so it's not like they're going to start torturing people for fun. If UK companies want to do business in the EU, they will need to keep the same standards. Japanese firms already design products based to EU specs for example. As for trading with neighbours, there is nothing stopping the UK from negotiating new deals with EU states. Other countries certainly have.

This may be the biggest clusterf**k of all time, but as the saying goes, smooth seas don't make for skillful sailors. This is a big change to the world, but it needn't be a bad one in the long run.

Or we're doomed.
Who knows?

Certainly surprised me!

As detestable as David "pig-fiddler" Cameron is, his much more palatable than the likes of Gove and Johnson.
This has, I believe, handed the PM seat to BoJo.
The Labour Party already has daggers out for Corbyn, so the infighting there will make mounting any kind of meaningful challenge next to impossible.

[Konrad]

Anger trumps logic it seems.

As an American, that line stands out for me, particularly the 2nd word. We are in the middle of our own version of Brexit. Brown people stole your job. And more are coming to make you kneel an a rug. Let's build a wall. Only difference is we're voting on whether we want America to be part of Planet Earth or not.
Good luck guys.

[job]

Anger trumps logic it seems.

As an American, that line stands out for me, particularly the 2nd word. We are in the middle of our own version of Brexit. Brown people stole your job. And more are coming to make you kneel an a rug. Let's build a wall. Only difference is we're voting on whether we want America to be part of Planet Earth or not.
Good luck guys.

Lol.

[Mike the Pike]

New Zealand went through something similar in the 80s when our anti-nuclear stance riled the US so much we were booted out of the Austrslia, New Zealand and United States defense alliance, or ANZUS for short, which was of no consequence to NZ, although it had dragged us into the Vietnam fiasco.
However, despite being down graded to a lower level of ally, we did get the last laugh when our former mates formed the "Aussie 'n' United States" alliance, known as AnUS ( )*( ) for short.

[Spevna]

Backpeddaling at Olympic level speed!

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... SApp_Other

[Primarch]

Backpeddaling at Olympic level speed!

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... SApp_Other

No, I'm pretty sure even Olympians aren't that fast.
They were never going to be able to stop immigration from the EU immediately and honestly, getting in skilled workers, who contribute to the national economy is always a good thing. I always understood the Leave goal was to try regain some control over who can come in and who cannot rather than a Trump style wall around the country. Sadly not everyone realised the difference.

[Spevna]

Backpeddaling at Olympic level speed!

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... SApp_Other

No, I'm pretty sure even Olympians aren't that fast.
They were never going to be able to stop immigration from the EU immediately and honestly, getting in skilled workers, who contribute to the national economy is always a good thing. I always understood the Leave goal was to try regain some control over who can come in and who cannot rather than a Trump style wall around the country. Sadly not everyone realised the difference.

Very true.
England already had control though.
England is not in the Schengan agreement, so they could refuse entry (as I understand it) but they never did because cheap foreign labour is in the best interest of businesses.