The Ruckster Rant - Warning contains trash talk

[Spevna]

I didn't say you had to check the rules. I said that your tank was modelled with one gun but at the start of the game you asked for it to be counted as another. Half way through the game the gun had "changed" to the one it was actually modelled with.

I know about how the codices are different and that certain options in one codex are not even options in another. But if you have purposely written a BA list and are using blue marines instead I don't see how what colour they are painted or what weapons they are modelled with can be that much cause for concern. Just look at the list in front of you that you, and your opponent will have. That should be reminder enough. And if they do slip up, all it takes is a friendly reminder. There is no need to not play someone over it.

[Colonel Voss]

You missed the point. If a player sets down a blue army and says they are dark angels, that's fine. If the next time I play him, he sets down the same army and says they are blood angels, and the time after that regular space marines, now I have a problem.

As for the switch up, if MiJ confirms I did so, then I owe a huge apology to him for that.

I am after all human and I do make mistakes.

[me_in_japan]

You missed the point. If a player sets down a blue army and says they are dark angels, that's fine. If the next time I play him, he sets down the same army and says they are blood angels, and the time after that regular space marines, now I have a problem.

I think this summarises the issue quite nicely. Proxying an army once, on a trial basis, is fine. Doing it habitually is just being fickle. Using Space Wolves as Dark Angels is no different to using Necrons to proxy Tyranids.

As for the switch up, if MiJ confirms I did so, then I owe a huge apology to him for that.

I do recall this actually happening, but it was a long time ago and with therapy I was able to put it behind me
nah, no worries, chief. As you say - we all make mistakes sometimes

[Spevna]

You missed the point. If a player sets down a blue army and says they are dark angels, that's fine. If the next time I play him, he sets down the same army and says they are blood angels, and the time after that regular space marines, now I have a problem.

As for the switch up, if MiJ confirms I did so, then I owe a huge apology to him for that.

I am after all human and I do make mistakes.

I didn't miss the point at all. I just think you are wrong. As long as I can tell what something is, there isn't a problem. If it is is power armour and has a bolter, the lack of wolf pelts, blood drops, pointed vampire teeth, and scalp locks is neither here nor there. It isn't something I would ever do personally but I don't have a problem either way.

And why would you possibly have a problem? If you know which army you will be playing in advance, the other player has the required codex and an army list, and the models are close enough to what they should be, how could it possibly be a problem?

Using Space Wolves as Dark Angels is no different to using Necrons to proxy Tyranids.

Are you being serious Dave? That has to be the lamest example used to explain anything ever.

SW and DA have the same stat lines, both have power armour, both have bolters. The differences are pretty much superficial for the majority of the army. Necrons and Tyranids have a lot less in common. Not the same race, different stats, different everything pretty much.

[me_in_japan]

Using Space Wolves as Dark Angels is no different to using Necrons to proxy Tyranids.

Are you being serious Dave? That has to be the lamest example used to explain anything ever.

ok, ok, bad example. mea culpa. I guess i was (poorly) trying to demonstrate how I think proxying is proxying, regardless of models used. I mean, I agree that the various flavours of marines look similar (or in many cases identical) enough to easily tell what is being proxied as what, but at some level there are going to be differences, otherwise it wouldnt be proxying, desho? Proxying your existing army to try out an army which you are considering buying is fine, but simply collecting a bunch of marine models and saying theyre BA, DA, SW, or whatever depending on your mood that day, is a bit lame. It also precludes you from painting them, as once an army has been painted uniformly red with blood drops its a bit iffy to say "this is my ultramarine army".

Proxying in this manner is an entirely different animal to buying models for the express purpose of using them as something else. For example, my heresy blights are currently serving as lesser daemons. Sometimes (with my opponent's express permission, as it is, well, against the rules) I use them as Plaguebearers. In both cases the models are clearly identifiable as what I'm proxying them as, and theres only one unit of them. This is easy for everyone to remember. I would certainly not ever use them as, say, one unit of 7 lesser daemons and one unit of 7 plaguebearers in the same game. Thatd be confusing. Equally, its totally OK for Konrad to use his (rather wonderful) squat chaps as orks, as thats all he ever uses them as. Consistency - thats the key. If Konrad started using them as IG, then orks, then made his own squat rules for em and then decided maybe orks were better after all, and then IG again, and then... well, itd get annoying. This would be gaming for gaming's sake alone.

I think my feelings come largely from an aesthetic viewpoint. I do really think the gaming side of things should be fun, and everybody should maintain a relaxed attitude when it comes to opponents' use of proxy models. But, part of me just grumbles subconsciously whenever someone is gaming for the sake of gaming, with no concern for how things look. I really like Badruck's orks. They look proper orky. Yeah, for all I know there's all kinds of proxying going on in there. Maybe that big dakka gun he just shot me with is actually modelled as a supa-mega-zap-rokkit, but frankly I cant tell the difference anyway, so it doesnt bother me. They look cool, so Im fine with it. I do disagree with him having a world eaters army (which is clearly painted as such, and quite nicely, too) and saying he also has a dark angels army, space wolves army, and blood angels army. He doesnt. He has a world eaters army.

Does that make any sense? or am I waffling again?

anyway, id like to mention that all this is just my opinion. If it came down to it, id still play against badruck (or anyone else) with a proxy army. Getting a game in and relaxing with folks is the most important thing. All this "if i was god I'd make it so that...." stuff is all a bit hypothetical, really. I'm just tossing in my tuppenceworth to the Infintely Undying Great Proxy Debate...

[Spevna]

I actually am in total agreement and have been the whole time. Once I have bought a load of models and painted them up for use as an army, that is all they ever will be. For me, as you know, the look and fluff of an army is more important to me than how it plays. I chose models I like, choose a look/theme that I like, and then get painting/gluing/chopping. But that's just me and, to some extent, you. If my marines were painted up as SW, that is all I would ever play them as.

However, if another player has a set of marines that he uses to represent each and every chapter, and I like the guy, I would be more than happy to play him. I would avoid any chapter specific markings in his case but that's just me. If there was a guy with a SW army with official minis and paint scheme who I thought was a proper through and through douche-bag, there is no way I would play him. I would rather play someone with all purpose marine minis that he has taken the time to paint than someone who spends load of money on the latest minis but can't be bothered to paint them. Who you are playing against and how much fun you have trumps what pretty bits of plastic he or she is moving around the table.

As for the Admiral's claims of how many armies he has, well, let us all remember that he teaches English and not maths. His adding skills are not what they should be He plays about 100 armies but only owns about 1 and a half.

[Admiral-Badruck]

Well I think I got all the points... thanks for the input guys...

As far as what Codex I will use to represent the Red Scorpions and the World Eaters??...

Answer what ever codex will give me the best chance of kicking the crepe out of the guy I am playing.

Cheese is one of my favorite foods and I like a little bit one every thing I eat.. for all of you lactose intolerant out there too Fraking Bad The ruckster don't care.

If it looks over powered you can bet that I will be spamming it... Spam is also one of my favorite foods it goes good with cheese. and a bit of hot sauce....


As for the Armies I have.

I own I have 4,000 points worth of red Scorpions in the SM Dex or the Dark angle dex.. one army 2 codex I count it as 2 armies I could take if I wanted to. I certainly could say to some one play this army I will play the other and we can have a 2000 point cutting the army in half and saying you play SM dex I will play Dark Angels Dex.

I have World Eaters to be Blood Angels and CSM they it is about 2000 points so far but soon I will be about 3000 points. 1500 v 1500 until I get land raiders and DreadPods can't be done but 1000 v 1000 is not a problem at all.

Daemons I would like to have a full Nurgle and full Khorne army nearly got it done so does that count as 2 armies or one... same dex totally different builds??

Orks I have 10,000 points of Orks that makes almost any army combo you can think of with them... I could make at least 4 theme armies with them. how should I count that? :mrgreen

Chaos Space marines army / traitor guard I have a full Nurgle army in the CSM dex or I could run my traitor guard I have at least 50 models of Guard Infantry they could be played as IG as well but until I get is separated and made in to an army I guess I can only count the Nurgle stuff all told I have 2000 points of Nurgle and Old Space marines that I use as CSM

Necrons are mine and wow if I could count them as Nids that would be cool... today I felt like I was trying to as they were the bad guy aliens in the Space hulk Mission Stuart and I played...

Last but not least DARK ELDAR Lets get back on track... I think the old models are just fine.... they are a great army as they are, and the only thing the army needs is a face lift. And a few more interesting units but the list I used today was very very good... so the dex does not need re-write just a face lift put the wargear in the right spots add a few more interesting units give me Harlequins,and that will do it. Love them as they are. Will I play them more not sure when but if they come with a new Dex that stomps on what the lot of you play you can bet the farm the house and the kids.. I will be using them on you

[Primarch]

Yes, even with the current rules, the Dark Eldar can be nasty. Badruck wiped me out pretty much with some VERY close charges and a big misjudgement on my part. I had a chance to turn the game around, but I botched it and paid for it badly.
Also....stupid T7 Talos's are a pain when you have NO powerfists. I usually always take a couple but didnt bother today. D'oh!

[Mike the Pike]

WTF are you doing Prim.?
You were meant to give the Madmiral a spanking. Now, his already over-inflated head will get even bigger. He already believes he is the fourth best player in the world, what next?

[Colonel Voss]

Well just remember that post the next time he says something about taking a fluffy army or how he isn't a member of the cult of cheese or what ever he comes up with next.