Best &Worst SF/Fantasy/Action Villains (in terms of success)

[Mike the Pike]

You still haven't countered the point that this clown Kofta or whatever only ever controlled/destroyed one world, while my main Palps conquered the entire galaxy.

Differences in plot size. FFVI is limited to one world, Star Wars one galaxy.

yep, all his machinations and he conquered a galaxy, was killed by his faithful side kick and never could electrocute anyone enough to kill them. *YAWN*

If Kefka has taken over the senate, the galaxy would have burned in destruction and mayhem. Obi wan and Yoda would have had a permanent headache of all the from the disturbances in the force. And he'd done it with style that some stiff robe wearer never could have done.

A coupla more points:

And Kefka is killed over and over again by groups of gamer geeks with little plastic controllers in their hands pushing buttons in the correct order:D

Plot size, schmot size. A Galaxy is greater than a single world.

Palpatine offed 4 Jedis in 5 minutes (admittedly the last with a little help)

[Primarch]

And entire planetary populations are routinely wiped out, only to have more people brought in from other planets just to be wiped out again a few generations later in the Grimdarkness of the 40k-verse. Even if the Emperor is just a rotting corpse sitting on the throne, his control of the galaxy lasted a lot longer than Palpatines.
Plus, in all fairness, Palpatine did a pretty good job of running the empire and keeping civilisation plodding along merrily. Not only did my choice conquer the galaxy, the end result was a galaxy of dread, misery and a mind numbing, soul crushing existence. And thats for the guys who RUN it.

[Spevna]

And Kefka is killed over and over again by groups of gamer geeks with little plastic controllers in their hands pushing buttons in the correct order:D

This.

When is gets to the point that WH40K players are saying something is "too geeky" to be considered, it REALLY must be geeky.

[Colonel Voss]

You still haven't countered the point that this clown Kofta or whatever only ever controlled/destroyed one world, while my main Palps conquered the entire galaxy.

Differences in plot size. FFVI is limited to one world, Star Wars one galaxy.

yep, all his machinations and he conquered a galaxy, was killed by his faithful side kick and never could electrocute anyone enough to kill them. *YAWN*

If Kefka has taken over the senate, the galaxy would have burned in destruction and mayhem. Obi wan and Yoda would have had a permanent headache of all the from the disturbances in the force. And he'd done it with style that some stiff robe wearer never could have done.

A coupla more points:

And Kefka is killed over and over again by groups of gamer geeks with little plastic controllers in their hands pushing buttons in the correct order:D

Plot size, schmot size. A Galaxy is greater than a single world.

Palpatine offed 4 Jedis in 5 minutes (admittedly the last with a little help)

Yep, and Palpatine is as well. He was on the SNES Star Wars Return of the Jedi game. Interestingly enough, it never was ported to another game system while FFVI was ported to DSD, and PS1, so there must be something more compelling about defeating Kefka than defeating the Emperor.

Ok, then potency of power, Palpatine became an Emperor. Kefka became a god. Also the Emperor came from being a senator (high power at the start) while Kefka began as a lowly science experiment. Lots harder to go from science experiment to god then senator to emperor.

The Emperor killed 4 Jedi who were skilled in the force at once. Kefka killed hundreds of esper (to put in Star Wars terminology, beings of pure force) in a matter of minutes.

Final Goals and achievable: Palpatine: destory the jedi and gain control the Galactic republic: achieved the second goal, nearly achieved the first goal.

Kefka: destroy the world, destroy all life, destroy hope: achieved first and third goal, nearly achieved the second.

Cool factor in my opinion goes very much to Kefka, cool personallity (the only villian I love to hate), much cooler clothes (dark robes with pale skin is so 60s), better interaction with others (temper tantrums, evil laughter, sadistic jokes).

[Mike the Pike]

@Prim.: But the 40K Emperor is still nominally a goodie, thus disqualifying him. Winnie Churdhill did some terrible things in his tima as did Patton but they are still considered good guys. Mostly, 'cos their side won and got to write the histories.

@Spev: I didn't say too geeky. There is no such thing.

@Voss: So, what you're saying is that Captain clown who got his powers as a result of a science experiment gone wrong (there's an original plot line for ya) then became a god (kinda) but then gets killed pretty quickly after that is better than mere mortal Palps a.k.a. 'P to the big E'. I just can't see how a 'God' becoming overlord of one world is more successful than a mortal (albeit one with force powers) becoming master of his galaxy.

An analogy might be, someone taking a pill that turns him into Michael Jordan for a day. In that time, he wins the NBA Championship. Not bad. But surely, the guy who takes what talent he has, works, schemes and trains (in secret) for years and then wins a dozen NBA Championships, the Indy 500, the Soccer World Cup and the Gumball Rally is more successful.

Also, how amusing one's laugh is or how cool one's clothes are, are both irrevelant. The title and starting thread state the criteria clearly. Success, or lack thereof, in the field of Villainy is the only the thing that counts

[Mike the Pike]

I just thought of another successful villain, after re-reading Spev's post on the film 'Seven'. How about Kaiser Soze/Verbal Kint from the 'Usual Suspects'. Like the guy from 'Seven' also played by Kevin Spacey, he wins in the end too. His plan succeeds and he lives to tell the tale and presumably live a long and fruitful life.



Actually, that would make him now the front runner IMHO. Plapatine and Kefia, while both successful, both get killed. Seven's John Doe succeeds but also dies (although his death is part of his success). The 40K Emperor (He's a goodie!) established a huge (but fractured) Galactic Empire but is as close to death as a creature can be as a result of getting beaten up by his son.

[Spevna]

@Spev: I didn't say too geeky. There is no such thing.

My mistake. You must've been trying to say what uber cool stud muffins all those FF players are but it was just too subtle for a dumb meat head like myself to notice.


And good call on Soze. While John Doe's mission was a complete success, he does still die so cannot enjoy the fruits of his labour. Soze on the other hand gets away with it and lives to tell (or not tell) the tale.

[me_in_japan]

Does Kaiser Soze count as a villain, though? Personally, I was rooting for him...

For what it's worth, how about Lord Foul the Despoiler? Sure, he gets temporarily discombumerated from time to time, but every time ol' miseryguts Covenant comes back to the Land, there's Lord Foul, winning again. It's all part of his masterplan, no matter how hard Covenenant tries. Heck, without wishing to spoiler things for people, there are some pretty cut and dried victories for Foul in the later books. I mean, all this chat about Kefka becoming a god and taking over/destroying the world. Heck, that's what Lord Foul does every time he loses!

Am I wrong?

[Mike the Pike]

Bees are in the what now?

Who the fudge are you talking about?

[Primarch]

Bees are in the what now?

Who the fudge are you talking about?

I think (but I could be wrong), that he is talking about The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. One of the dullest fantasy series ever written. Now, I will read some utter drivel alongside classics and contemporary stuff, but I put the first book down about 200 pages in and threw it away as I had never been so bored reading a book that hadn't been assigned as homework.